Oh, Lets not go into Nazi discussion, but I think that I can now 'sort' of defend the NCR.

I still prefer the Legion though, even if Caesar is a bit of a loony.

Didn't you listen to Caesar when he said how they'd change after conquering the NCR. (all the thesis, antithesis and synthesis crap) And this is why I believe the reason why they act like they act (slaving, using women only to breed and work and brainwashing kids) is that they need a bigass army to achieve that synthesis.

I wasn't wanting to start a discussion on the topic, was just pointing out that they were indeed fascist and probably the most fascist group ever known to man.

But back on topic, as I've said before both NCR and Legion are flawed (but in different ways), and IMO New Vegas would prosper more without either.

I hate to bring this up because I know people see it as a negative towards the Legion, but this genocide the Legion commits, such as against the Powder Gangers in Nipton, is perfectly justified in my books. If the Legion did not massacre Nipton the Powder Gangers and whoever else lived in Nipton would probably end up attacking and killing inncents in the Mojave. Which brings me back to my original point: Fallout isn't set in present day. It's set in a world where everybody carries a gun, and where there is no such thing as genocide. As for slavery, the NCR basically uses the convicts at NCRCF as slaves before they rebelled. The Legion simply uses past gang runners who are no use in combat or are female, which brings me to what I consider to be the Legion's greatest flaw: the sixism. I think it would make more sense for the Legion to be more tolerant of women, what with them being more tolerant of homosixuality. I think it's not a great choice by Obsidian, but for the purposes of the argument I'll have to agree that sixism in the Legion is a huge flaw.

And what do you mean racism?

Dont forget the legion have slaves as well.
And the troops cant think for them selves.They listen to anything there superior orders.
NCR has more freedom than the legion,esspiccaly if your female.
But if the legion got a hold of the area,half the population would be forced to be part of his army,just like the 86 conquerd tribes that form his army now.

Of course the Legion have slaves. Look, if the NCR are in control, every citizen pays tax or becomes a soldier. If the Legion are in control, you become a soldier or you work. At least with the Legion you're save.

Legion. NCR is a bunch of pansies.

Actually, homosixuality is punished by death in the Legion.

I go with the guy who has an army of robots.

Or at least I would be if I couldn't take those robots for myself...

If that's true, it's weird I didn't notice.

Nobody ever puts "Neither" or "None of the Above"

The Mojave doesn't need the NCR and it doesn't need the Legion.

That's what I believe. Unfortunately, the vote options don't account for what I believe.

I listened to Caesar explain his plan. I wasn't impressed. For starters let's begin with the Hegelian dialectic concept. The synthesis is not necessarily superior in any objective way to the thesis (or antithesis for that matter). It's a resolution of the conflict not a de facto improvement because two things have merged. When the Western Empire (thesis) fell to barbarians (antithesis) was the resulting synthesis even remotely a better society or more civilized than what had come before? Of course not. It would be about a millenia before the West ever returned to something approaching what they had lost. The synthesis Caesar has planned will only improve the Legion while devastating all the considerable progress the NCR has made.

Secondly Caesar is obviously attempting to ape the historical Caesar's overthrow of the Republic which ushered in the Empire. There's a major problem though. The real Caesar had an army comprised of Roman soldiers, who were culturally and mostly ethnically Roman at the core. He did not lead an army of barbarians who had been fanatically indoctrinated to utterly despise Rome and everything Rome stands for across the Rubicon. That is, however, what this Caesar is doing. It's less of a political coup and more of a massive barbarian invasion. Those didn't work out so well for Rome. Sure maybe Caesar can keep his army in check for a while but does he really think all these tribals he has taught to despise the NCR are going to integrate peacefully or just forget everything he drilled into them once the NCR is conquered? Caesar's attack on the NCR will result in devastation and slaughter not a Pax Romana.

Finally if Caesar wanted this synthesis to be the final product and not the Legion itself, why in God's name did he create the Legion in the first place? If he wanted an authoritarian society tempered by civilization, why not temper it himself instead of hatching some elaborate and idiotic plan to use a barbaric force to wipe out the NCR and thereby merge into something greater? Either Caesar quite likes the Legion and is just using cheap philosophy to win over people who aren't convinced that a bunch of [censored], murdering slavers are the best path for humanity or he's an idiot.

Well, I purposely didn't put in a "None of the Above" option as I wanted to know that if it was a choice between just the Legion and the NCR who would be better for the Mojave.

NCR always has and will be better then that Legion scum. Better tech, better training, better weapons. NCR for LIFE. Besides, why argue? The Brotherhood of Steel would demolish both of them if they had more soldiers and a better base.

The legion if full of morons stuck back on stragies in the roman era,that dont work.
There on the path of the roman empire and will have the same fate.

Disregarding the fact they're the greatest enemy the NCR has ever faced.

I never thought of caesar having an oedipul or just a negative woman complex but it makes sense. Why else would he make women slaves, men are stronger and the women could very effectively help run the legion. Men always trying to keep women down, dispicable.

I voted for the legion by the way. I agree with them 100% moreso than the ncr besides the sixism. The slavery and killing doesn't bother me.

Greatest enemy? Haha, no. Enemy with a good amount of soldiers? Yes.

See, that's what happens when mothers stops briast feeding too early. Megalomaniac, misogynist social darwinists hell-bent on world domination!

I believe that the legion are sixist as a carry-over from Van Buren - in that game their enemy was the of Daughters of Hecate. The Daughters were a female-dominated society so it was a "battle of the sixes" kind of thing between them.

Kind of rings hollow in NV though. . .I don't think the legion were well done.

Well I was assuming they are going to fanatically obey Caesar, as he is their god, father and leader rolled into one. And even if they weren't that obedient, who knows which parts of the NCR Caesar told them to despise. (apart from democracy, corruption, lack of self obedience and morality)

LOLOL. That made my day.

But going on topic, i would probably side with the NCR if i should choose between them and Legion. Although they are both [censored]s.

Courier or Mr. House is the way to go!

NCR & LEGION SHALT BE BURNED ONTO ONE THOUSAND FLAME'S! LET THE FIRE CONSUME THI SOULE'S OF THE IMPURE! THE HOLY COURIER SHALT REIGN THE MOJAVE DESERT! HAIL THE COURIER!

I couldn't resist. lolz

Both, the basic spoiled child turned into an idol, by proto civilisations who have no concept of the wider world they live in.
Easy to manipulate by promise of power and governance backed with threats of brutality by appointed demagogues risen to captains.
While it works he can lap up the praise from afar, when it does not he has to place himself front and centre to punish failure brought about by his own tactics.


Nope, nope and nope, sorry all I can say is..

Despite what you might believe, soldiers in the NCR themselves say the Legion is the biggest threat the NCR has faced.

Objection!