This conversation is actually quite entertaining, epicness1, let me ask you this, have you ever done a Legion playthrough and kept an open mind about it?

Ok for one if you have a good gun you can take out multiple people before they get close to you if there using swords. 2. if you have a pistol its as simple as reload another clip and you got yourself set and like seorulsy were talking about america not some [censored] middle east serously they can [censored] barly defend themselves how could u even bring that up about them boradom. they cant afford the luxury of weapons

Judging from the fact he's as biased against legion as the game is, I'de say he hasn't. :confused:




Before you go an insult someones country, realize that some people are different than america.

A 'good' gun? Dude you have played WAY to many video games if you think that it's as easy that, YOU go to the [censored] middle east and try to [censored] do something, I guarantee you'll be dead.

wtf do u mean by open mind with the legion

He means actually try to sympathize with what they are doing instead of being closed up in the NCR's box.

When I did my NCR playthrough I kept an open mind though, and I really love a lot of NCR citizens and soldiers/officers.
But it doesn't matter that I love them though, even by keeping an open mind I could still see the flaws, in fact, I could see far more than on my Legion playthrough.
I'm not "really" biased with Legion, I kept an open mind on all three paths and after thinking stuff over I find that the best path for Vegas and it's surrounding area specifically is House, but for Arizona, Mexico, Nevada and Core Region it's Legion.
I wouldn't say I'm biased really, I've just made up my mind after being presented with all the facts I could get.
But it's easier to defend the faction one believes in.

yah im sorry i cant sympathize for them since there just worthless

Ergh, I admit I liked the NCR in someways, overall they were corrupt.

Colonel Hsu, if he was in charge my opinion of them would likely change but seeing as he isn't.
EDIT: Epicness, this is supposed to be a debate, you should give a reason as to why you feel they are worthless.

Honestly Ceasers legion is bettter overall for the mojave, and it treats its citizens right. I will rule its land securly unlike NCR and will not limit itself to one city unlike house

ok when i see slavery is still alright in there its not good for the mojave ok thats what you LIKE SLAVERY because thats just terrrible they are unciviliezed and wont get anywhere

Then why are you discussing this subject with us?
If you haven't even "tried" to keep an open mind with Legion then you're just blindly hating them for no real reason.
Whats the point in debating if you haven't even tried to see it from the other side?

Exactly, he won't listen to any other side other than "LEGION SUXOREZ" without giving any reason on why they do to him, and how the NCR is any better.

just gave a perfectly good reason wow

So because of slavery?

Okay, now why is the NCR 'perfect' to you then?

Lets see no slavery, CIVILIZED, actually has a decently armed military, Trained soldiers, Good leadership, Have a gigantic area under there control, can actually win battles.

It doesn't seem that way, Kimball is a [censored], the general guy is ignorant and just wants to play a hero, they have fairly bad soldiers and a poorly equiped army, just look at Forlorn hope.

The Legion has more land in their control I believe, they have an actually trained army that knows and uses tactics, and have a ruthless military commander.

I have to say that's very close to my own personal opinions.
Honestly if the legion needed the Colarado for food or water, and were at war to improve their home lands, and to fight off the NCR.
I would have found them more believable, and put more of an interest in the run throughs.
Just having them as a tidal force of ( GECK set ) evil, designed to do everything the wrong way, just because it shows them as different.
Kept on bringing up more questions and no answers other than we do this to win and conquer.

This is unlike the NCR, there you can tailor them to be as bad or good as you like.
Take speech and barter, play nice and look for good ways you'll find it easily.
If you ignore the above, at best most of the NCR quests are grey, not evil just not helpfull to many / any.

If only they added this more to CL, play bad or make them them grey.
The choice should have been yours to chose, or at least before the Epilogue.

mm really thats why they got wrecked at hoover dam at the first battle

They were wrecked because of poor leadership, name two times the NCR won outside of the Dam?

The Legion is using terror tactics on the NCR with pyschological warfare, crucifying troops to lower morale, setting traps with bodies, those are all examples of Legion's warfare and tactics and how they are winning.

sounds like guerrilla warfare to me.

Things that the NCR did it and was bad.

Hired Raiders to attack Vault City. Check
Have deals with the Bishop Family. Check
BITTERSPRINGS. CHECK FOR REMINDER!!!!

True To Caesar

I don't like slavery, I find it to be horrible.
But this is the post apocalyptic wasteland and look how places are without order, one example is a place we had a whole game to, Capital Wasteland.
Look at how that place fared without any government or nation to uphold law and order.
It fell apart.

Now, what if NCR fell apart?
What would happen?
Well, different groups would seize the opportunity to strike less protected towns in order to take their stuff.
And what are those groups called?
Raiders.

If NCR falls then a lot of settlements, towns, cities, communities, villages and tribes will be without protection and raiders will seize the lands once again.
The connection that the lands had with each other will fade away as everyone tries to isolate themselves again.
Production will not come to a halt but it will slow down immensely.

So.
Why do I believe in Legion?
Cause they bring order.
They bring order to it's lands through brutality.
And guess what?
It works.
And here's the next thing, if Caesar dies then Lanius takes over.
It Lanius dies then Lucius will take over.
If Lucius dies then I'm sure Vulpes Inculta would take over.
No matter how many times you try to kill Legions leader the legate will always become the new Caesar.
The Legion cannot die.
It's way to do things might change depending on it's leader.
But Legion's structure will remain the same and they will continue to conquer until they've engulfed the entire West Coast.

So why do I believe in Legion?
Cause they won't fall.
They will never fall.
And they will bring order through brutality.
It will take many years of blood, pain and tears but in the end it will be better since everyone will be under one nation.
And no one, not a single person would dare to oppose them.
No more raiders.
No more fanatics.
No more corruption.
In Legion I place my trust even if my fate is to become a baby momma.

If some slaves have to suffer for a secure civilization to be restored for future generations then so be it.
So I don't like what they do, I don't approve of their slaves, sixism, torture or crucifixion but I approve of what their long-term goal is.
See, there's a difference.


[EDIT]
To clear a couple of things up.
Legion will never fall: No, I don't believe it will ever fall, the morality might start to go on a downward spiral if 5 Caesars in a row are killed within a couple of years but I don't think that Legion will easily abandon their new religion. I mean, they're willing to "die" for Caesar, no questions asked, just die if it served Caesar, so I doubt they would ever fall, the only faction that "could" kill Legion entirely is NCR if they got their [censored] together (Which I find unlikely) and MWBOS.

And we don't know about Legion's entire culture so who knows, maybe their civilized areas have little to no sixism, torture and crucifixion which strengthens them even more IMO.

Alright Epicness, i'm done with your endless looping.

Have a good day.

In the fallout world, both are regressing, the legion follows the roman empire, the ncr follows old America. Atleast the legion trains its soldiers, ncr sends them to die. And thats the thing, the CL soldiers die for the legion, the NCR soldiers die for the NCR $.


You havent even seen a documentry ? Templars, Richard anything ?
Also your a woman ?! But your name is gabrial thats male (aatleast I thought it was) unless its not your name. But if it isnt why not use a nickname isntead of a real one ?


Yessss I knew house was a good guy, [censored] yes.


The best part is how ranger Ghost, says ti deserved to be burned down "just not by the legion", even she admits it was a horrible place that needed to go.


Yep, and its funny because the legion cleaned up the mess the ncr made. (powder gangers)


Vault city choice independance. And the right to choose went something like "so vault city want to join the ncr ? Its your choice, you can join ncr, or you can choose not to join and keep getting attacked by thugs we hired to terrorize you. Democracy. Isnt it awesome!".

Wow just like the ncr captain at arotech, who murdered a man for mocking him about how his wife left him.


Jew caeser ? Now either you have something against Jews, because to me it seems like your using the word as an insult, or your one of those people who I hear on XBL screaming that along with other slurs thinking they are cool.
Ignoring that, the legion hasnt got citizens in the mojave, because thats where they are fighting. You dont see America and the UK trying to get people to visit afghan or Iraq, its a warzone, civlians shouldnt be there. Besides we can establiosh , due to their refusal of chems or alcohol and use of natrual/survival items, they have one hell of a farming project back home.


Modern day times =/= fallout. Also considering I regularly kill ncr in some playthroughs they arent exactly sniping me 500 yards away. If they could they would have cleared out nelson instantly.


Yep, copying old world america, even the annexing. Only difference is we wont have the vaults to fall back on because the ncr annexed them, so they likely arent a good fallback or arent as efficient. But yeah it will be a war again tribes, then something big will come again and break apart.


Well in the Uk we dont use gun s, crime isnt that bad.
Also you come of as one of those annonying "America [censored] yeah" types.

Just to cast some light on the whole women in the Legion thing, here's a quote from the wiki:



Granted, this is isn't really a lot to go by, so I really hope we get some more insight in Legion civilization in the future.