I think it was said in a strategy guide of some sort that came with the Collector's Edition. For some reason they chose not to tell us poor folks about it.

Then you never played FO1 or FO2. That attack at Bitterspings happened because they were raiding NCR settlements. Those raids had the blessing of Papa Khan. The Khans are not innocents. If they had the numbers they would be equal to if not worse than the Fiends; as they were in FO1 and FO2. In FONV they aren't as bad because they are still reeling from the butt kicking the NCR gave them. They have been reduced to drug pushers as the Jackals and Vipers were reduced to "petty and opportunistic" raiders by the NCR. Again, if it had been the CL instead of the NCR, they would be extinct. There also wouldn't be any Legionares emotionally scarred about killing them.

CL murder "innocent civilians" all the time by the order of Caesar. Every tribe they've conquered - in game: Nelson, and Nipton (if the Khans are innocent then so was everyone in Nipton). Until the NCR starts slavery, starts using women as pvssyl, and starts using children as weapons they are better than CL. They are both imperialist. The NCR tries "diplomacy" first. Caesar just storms in.

About Siri, when she speaks it is with fear and sadness/dispair in her voice. She also says the only defense a female has against being [censored] is if she is to young or to old, and that is "Usually".

@Tacibear - What is worse than enslavement? What can some other group do to you that is worse than that?

It is in the wiki. The priestesses raise the children of slaves and captures in the cult of Caesar. They are propaganda nannies.

Uh-huh, they raided settlements, but is it ever said that they tried to slaughter everyone in town?
Raiding =/= genocide. (As far as I know. :shrug: )

[edit]
Looked back at what we were discussing, yes, Khans have murdered people from time to time, but how are they any worse than NCR?
It's all about perspective.
If you were to have a Khan companion and go to a place which was raided by Khans some years ago then you'd hear the same thing.
It's all about perspective.
So I admit I was wrong, the Khans "have" killed innocent people, but not massacred them for no value like NCR did at Bitter springs.
Khans did what they had to do in order to survive.
NCR did what they were told by their leaders because the Khans were a nuisance.
And instead of just taking out the leaders of Khans and trying to force them to disband they decided that the entire Khan village with it's civilians were to be put to death.

Khans might have murdered innocent people as well, but they did it for different reasons, they did it for survival in their own way.
NCR just wanted them dead, period.



NCR tries diplomacy? I've seen them use the word diplomacy to justify their actions but never seen them use actual diplomacy to work out a deal. (I know one can create an alliance between NCR and BOS but that's the thing, "we" can work out a deal, NCR can't, they'd rather just have them all dead.)
And yes, Legion murder innocent civilians from time to time, never said they didn't, never said I liked it, never said it was 100% justified.


Ok.
Still, it's 4 slaves out thousands (plural), I'll reserve my judgment until I get to see more slaves in future DLC's/games.

Everyone talks about that the CL will fall,

But why not the NCR

Why not Mr. House

They can fall too

Specially the NCR who didnt do much for the comunity in New Vegas

Has anyone said they will fall?
Apart from canon in the next possible game, I've seen no one bring it up.
A lot of NCR are are exactly as evil as CL, a lot of CL are pure evil> no they're not.
A few posts about CL actually being set to evil from the start.
A load saying the NCR will fail.
One by me saying if you take Juvenal as a source CL will get corrupt and bloated before long.
Who's been saying they'll fall ?.... let me at'em, let me at'em :toughninja:

Though come to think about it they would, all it would take is heading to Jacobstown without socks on...
If they did wear them though, all the slaves would revolt, as nothing makes a slave more angry than a man in socks wearing sandels.
It's lose lose.

Epicness1 and some other guy were saying "cl will fall" or something along those lines.

Oh I skipped those, after he called me dumb.

Honestly no evidence about the legion falling is made.
Caesars death may have an effect, the failure at the dam would.
Other than those it's too big to break up over a short time, evolution of the faction or intercine fractures maybe.
Upheaval yes, falling not really imo.

NCR will fail, for reasons we are already seeing.
House will not fail, the only one who can kill him is the corier, and that is only because he opened up the 38.

You can ddetermine what happens by removing the courier, without his intervention the ncr are weak and powerless. The legion wil have lanius who cant lead.
The only ones not effected are house and Yesman. If the courier didnt live, benny wouldnt rush, he would upgrade securitrons, unleash the army, then try to kill house and get destroyed. Delivering the chip, conveniently.
House is already on to the Omertas. And the BoS would never get into the strip. House/yesma are the only ones who could survive long term with no support. But this isnt about them, the legion would fall eventually under lanius, but it would take longer to fall thanncr, which is at its apex, and ready to go down hill.

I don't like either the NCR or CL, but of the two, I'd rather be under the NCR. I could freely leave the NCR, and I wouldn't be a brainwashed slave or soldier. I could openly speak of my dislike of the government. I could choose what I want to do. (If I was a woman there is no way I would be CL.) The people have rights by law. True the wealthy get away with things, but it is worse in the CL. Slaves have no rights, they are property. Any soldier can do whatever they want to a slave. The higher the rank the more they can get away with. Do you think anyone, but Caesar will say anything if Laneus decides to kill a soldier? He could probably get away with killing a Praetorian. "He looked at me funny." He killed one of Dale Barton's brahmin because it was in his way.

I have got to learn how to do the multi quote thing.

Your forgetting that House only has a limited number of securitrons while the NCR and Legion losses are replenishable they will run into the same isssue as the BOS unless House would hire some mercs.

Well that's the thing, I don't care about "me".
That's the whole point of why I like Legion.
If I were to be selfish and think of my own comfort then I'd say NCR or House.
But I don't care about me.
I care about the west-coast.
Not just in the present (2281) but the future of it as well.
If I have to become a slave for the world to be a better place in 10, 30, 60, 100 or maybe even 200 years from now then so be it.
So my will?
My wishes?
My goals?
My comfort?
It's all about me, my selfish reasons for wanting to live.
And I'm not important, what is important is the future.

I am pretty sure iof the worst came to the worst he could rebuild. They are after all robots.Forexample kill yes man as many times as you like its a new body.

That is if he has the resources to build them, he can't just magically get the cables, chips, wheels, plates, tv screens et cetera et cetera.
And if he does have the resources, how long until they deplete?

I don't know about you, but I figured that the Securitron Vault is a factory as well.

Yeah I think he has a factory for them but resources?
I dunno about that.
He might run out of them, if NCR collapses then he won't be able to get much from the west side of Vegas and he definitely won't be getting any from the east.
So how will he get resources to create more? (When and "if" they run out.)

EH, he may be good enough to just reuse the parts until it's finally worthless.

What if he can't get the parts or the parts are broken completely? (Like say if some legionnaires have some fun with one of them then bring it back with them to use themselves, or maybe just trash the thing and set it on fire.)

Then it's one resource usage less for House..

Though, seeing all the Securitrons I would believe that they have a steady supply of them for 50 years.

It's possible he steals from Legion and/or NCR. Well, not in his state that he's a sitting duck, but possibly his Securitions go out and take cables, chips, wheels, plates, tv screens etc...

With all their replenashable supplies, House will never fall. However, the Courier surprisingly seems to bypass this and kill or disable him.

Yup, but it depends on what happens after the second battle at Hoover Dam really.
What if Van Graffs wants to control Vegas all of the sudden?
They definitely have the means to kill securitrons, all they need is manpower.
So I dunno, I still think House will run out of securitrons sooner or later, might be 10 years, might be 200 more.
Still, I don't find him to be anything more than a greedy diaper wearing old sod that needs to be put out of his misery. :laugh:

Good point I'll use the ol' pony trick of taking a quote out of context to make my point..

"We have enough money and manpower for a small army".. Gloria ah ah Van G.

Not enough to take on NCR before the dam, but House only can do that with his securitrons after the dam as well.
Unless he raises an army outside of NCR / CL lands, a private trading firm with vast pockets and already set up multinationally could take him on.

This thread filled up fast I don't really have much to say about the topic atm really. :sadvaultboy:

Try to be pro Yes Man.