Who do you think is stronger the NCR or Legion?

From what I seen in NV the Legion was alot stronger especially when I wnet to that hope camp forgot the name of it and when I spoke to House and he thinks the Generals plan for the Dam's defence was [censored] also when you do the Brotherhood of steal quest and talk to the Brotherhood soldier watching the two factions from the hill and he tells you about the Legion slaughtering the NCR... From what I seen from that game the NCR was full of green recruits in large numbers and the Legion was full of these bad ass veteran type that rip your limbs off

Judging by the progress Legion has made and will continue to make without the Couriers assistance, the Legion are stronger.
Troopers are only given the bare minimum training before shipped to the frontlines and when they're there they just stand around and pick their nose most of the time.
Whereas Recruits are forced to train every day and go on constant skirmishes to train their battle expertise.
Troopers aren't all fanatically loyal to NCR, they joined out of propaganda or because of economical reasons.
Legionnaires are zealots to Caesar and will fight until they die in his name.

Nelson, Nipton, Searchlight, Monorail, President Assassination.


And before anyone starts, legionnaires do not use just machetes, so don't bring that up as an argument like "guns vs swords, guns win".

The NCR is alot stronger.

1st: The NCR would have easily won the first battle of Hoover Dam as we learned in Honest Hearts from Joshua Graham. If it weren't for what happened at the Divide.

2nd: The NCR isn't even actively fighting the Legion. The NCR in the Mojave is more of a police force/border guard then an active military at war. Their plan is to contain the Legion not take it out.

3rd: The NCR is the largest faction in the known wasteland. It goes from Baja Mexico in the south to southern Oregon in the North, and as far east as Reno Nevada. Their greatest advantage, their numbers.

4th: The NCR manufactures weapons and ammo and has doctors that use real medicine.

5th: They have howitzers and Vertibirds (where there is one there is more).

6th: This goes back to having a large area and not wanting to fight the Legion. The Government has their best troops such as their Rangers out "chasing ghosts in Baja" and protecting brahmin.

7th: NCR has taken out Navarro and is winning against the Brotherhood of Steel, they sent a whole chapter underground.

We should just stick to this topic ==> http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1411619-strongest-military-force-in-the-post-apocalyptic-wastes/

In a fight in which the NCR is actually using all of its resources the Legion gets a nuclear bombardment from vertibirds in very short order so I think you can do the math on this one.

Well then isn't Legion stronger because of NCR's neglect of the situation?
Strength shouldn't just be measured in head on collision combat, but also include leadeship capabilities.
Since NCR is neglecting the threat that is Legion and Legion having succeeded in many of their campaigns in the Mojave, that means Legion is stronger.
They have their eyes on the goal. Whereas NCR doesn't send in their stronger troops until by the very end and even then it's not their full force.

No it doesn't. The Legion is lucky, not stronger. That's what they're riding right now.

Lucky? Hhahahahahaha I like that

Neither.

Because if the Legion wins and Caesar either dies from his tumor or tries to convert what are still essentially a giant band of savages overnight into a "civilized" society via his Hegelian "Synthesis", the Legion will collapse on itself.

If the NCR wins, the bloated jingoism and social class lopsidedness will also collapse in on itself.

It is possible for someone to win every battle and still lose the war. So yes the Legion is stronger because the NCR just doesn't want to take the Legion seriously and that is the Legion's biggest advantage. If the NCR wanted to fight the Legion they could destroy them. But they don't because it would cost to much money and lives and the people of NCR aren't willing to pay that price. Joshua Graham himself tells us that the NCR would have all but destroyed the Legion at the first battle of Hoover Dam.

Also I don't like how people say "The Legion are trained from birth therefore they are far better than green troops." Green troops that are well equipped and supplied can win out over seasoned vets. It all depends depends on leadership. A great example (I can't use real world examples cause of rules) but during the last World War in the Pacific Green troops won out over seasoned Vets that had years of combat experience in the first battles of the War. The Vets were lead by morons that sent them in human wave attacks against the Green's machine guns. Just like how Caesar is sending his Vets against the Dam for the second time.

In the Mojave? Legion. Mojave gives Legion ideal benefits, or rather the NCR allows them to have those benefits.

1. NCR isn't out for an all out war, so they try to hold back the Legion with as little effort as possible. This shows as quickly gathered and trained soldiers, who won't last long in a combat situation. IIRC some Legion officer said that NCR mines are many times more dangerous than their troops, which is saying something.

2. NCR doesn't want to improve their efforts in the Mojave, due to civilian resistance to it back in California. All the while the Legion tries to swing things even more to their benefit via sabotage, espionage, demoralisation, raiding supply lines, etc.

3. NCR is having unimaginative leaders in charge(Oliver), and as a result Legion thrives on the more subtle fields of war. And the Legion counters the troop massing tactic by means that try to avoid battle fields that favor troop numbers(going into the Dam through the intake pipes, and avoiding troops massed on the surface of the Dam at first).

4. NCR shooting itself to the leg with it's border policies, for example the caravans getting stuck at the Mojave outpost. Also corrupt officers seem to shy away caravan movement with their "tolls" which chisel caravan profits, which turns the caravans away.

5. Then there are benefits in the Mojave that aren't so tightly knit to the NCR. Such as the presence of groups like the Great Khans, Fiends, the Omertas and so forth. Also House benefits Legion in a way, as he acts as an distraction to the NCR, more so than to the Legion.

Those are the few reasons I could think off the top of my head. Though I doubt the Legion would triumph in a different enviroment, but in the Mojave, the Legion would win if there was no Courier tipping the scales one way or the another.

Well it's a good thing the NCR can't figure out how to build an MG nest.

The NCR can't even figure out how to use arty on the Fort. It's inexcusable that they allow such a target to persist within sight range. Absolutely insane.

I think that's due to game design then anything else. But hundreds of troops with automatic weapons is just as good.


Yeah the NCR is going to spend tons of money and resources to make shells for that one super canon. It isn't logical to waste such resources and time on one weapon. A weapon that would easily over shoot the Fort.

The NCR should have brought up the Howiters they would now have by the time of New Vegas. But that too has its problems. It would tell people they are in a real war and the leadership doesn't want that. It's pretty much the same reason why NCR dragged their ass on getting the Rangers and heavy troops to the Mojave. The cost to supply all the shells for them would be to great, think of all the bullets you could make for every shell. Then the simple matter of getting them there.

I know, but I always find it amusing that a single Howitzer or .50cal would basically negate all Legion efforts to take the dam.

Alot of them would yes, but the Legion is pretty good at sabotage, so just one wouldn't do. It would have been great to see factions with .50cals.

NCR is fighting with one hand behind it's back. NCR will win due to higher numbers and better technology. Sure Legion has decent training, but what is this in the face of MGs? A big red mess.

And if Joshua Graham hadn't made the mistake of chasing the NCR through Boulder City they would've won with ease. They barely had any casualties pushing the NCR off of Hoover Dam.


They're fighting the Legion in Nelson and recovering in Searchlight from the Legion's radioactive attack there.

Everywhere else is them trying to gain influence so when they take over (because in their mind it is a when) not everybody will be against their rule.


Unlike the Legion the NCR's population isn't mainly focused around their military.

For the Legion there are a few settlements but most of the people are warriors and slaves dedicated to the war effort.


The Legion doesn't rely on technology. In a war of attrition they would win.


They only showed them using one to drop of the president, my guess is they have so few they're only used when absolutely necessary.


Even when they're brought up for the Second Battle of Hoover Dam the NCR loses without the Courier's help so that counts for little.


What was the ratio, one or two dozen dead NCR troopers for every dead BoS Paladin? Numbers wise that's a loss.



Funny, seems the NCR is going all out against the Legion bringing in the Veteran Rangers and they still lose without the Courier's help.

Once again, almost all of the Legion is dedicated to their armies but that's not the case for the NCR.

Who says the NCR has better technology? Service Rifles aren't nearly as good as Cowboy Repeaters.

Decent training? They have incredible training that you're trying to water down to make the NCR sound better. An NCR trooper against a Legion recruit one on one with no weapons is a cakewalk for the Legion recruit. Don't talk down on the Legion's training when the NCR just teaches them how to pull a trigger and throws them on the front lines.

Guess what? Legion has MGs too. A TON of them, they just don't rely on them like the NCR.

I always hate it when people try to make an argument like that, at best they severely stretch the truth to try and make the Legion seem like they never use guns.

Was this a decisive victory or a pyrrhic one like the battle at Helios One?

NCR trooper would easily win. One shot to the face and dead. Whereas a Legionary needs to charge in hope the NCR trooper is mentally [censored] and misses all 20 shots while the Legionary is closing in the gap to melee. IF this is a melee vs melee comparison, Legion takes the cake, but the second this become a CHARGE! like you're implying it is, Legion doesn't have anything going for it. Legion relies on stealth for the most part. What are you talking about? Legion doesn't manufacture guns or the like. Guess what? Legion doesn't have a lot of MG's. This is just something you seem to conjure up. HUR DUR LEGION HAS LOT OF GUNZ!!!!!! No they really don't. That's why we very rarely see some in CL use them.