Legion or NCR? #5 : Fallout: New Vegas

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:48 am

well that must be a hole in the plot :\

why would caesar kill everyone on the strip.
theres alot of potential slaves and i dont think caesar would waste slaves

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:19 pm

So Legion punishing people makes them better to handle the Mojave? No trails, No laws just kill the person that did something "wrong." Not a place many would want to live.

Legion Does not have a better Military then NCR. NCR uses medical treatment. Legion just uses healing powder. Ceasar wishes he had the military power of NCR. He wan't California so he can have the resources to better outfit is legion.

Actually, it's fairly obvious that the Legion has better Military Cabilities than the NCR.

The Legion manages to take out multipule towns and cities along the Colorado and deeper inside NCR territory, while the NCR can barely handle a couple of escaped convicts.

And the Legion seems to have better weapons than the NCR, seeing as though most Veteran Rangers carry around antiquited Lever Action rifles, while Centurions carry around modern day Marksman rifles.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:34 am

Right, because the Geneva Convention doesn't allow it.

There are alot of moments where something like this has been used throughout history with scary results:

1462: Vlad the Impaler...er...Impales almost 10,000 of his own people.

Almost 20,000 of the attacking Turks rout at the sight of this.

thats a little outdated isnt it just by ohh you know a 700 years. See ceaser inst modern, doesn't use modern techniques. If this was the case all of the NCR would be scared which there not because they dont see the CRUCIFY i will say again. and that Vlad guy is a psychopath. thats bringing down his own morale on his own army just wrong. why in the world would you kill your own people. Legion is stuck in the past and they need to get out of it

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:38 am

thats a little outdated isnt it just by ohh you know a 700 years. See ceaser inst modern, doesn't use modern techniques. If this was the case all of the NCR would be scared which there not because they dont see the CRUCIFY i will say again. and that Vlad guy is a psychopath. thats bringing down his own morale on his own army just wrong. why in the world would you kill your own people. Legion is stuck in the past and they need to get out of it

Actually, Vlad the Impaler was fairly popular, even after he impaled all those people. He got rid of all the homeless when he did it.

And Caesar is quite modern. Saying that Caesar is using old tactics, is saying that the US Army uses old Tactics; since almost every modern army uses tactics that where made hundreds, and thousands, of years ago.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:13 am

Actually, it's fairly obvious that the Legion has better Military Cabilities than the NCR.

The Legion manages to take out multipule towns and cities along the Colorado and deeper inside NCR territory, while the NCR can barely handle a couple of escaped convicts.

And the Legion seems to have better weapons than the NCR, seeing as though most Veteran Rangers carry around antiquited Lever Action rifles, while Centurions carry around modern day Marksman rifles.

Legion lost the first battel for the Dam. Legion use a nuclear dirty bomb to take out a town. NCR has a very large area to cover and political reason NCR does not send out enough troops. Military Leader wants most troops at the Dam and they a proven right because Caesar attacks the dam. If Caesar was a smart man he would hit NCR where they are not. GO around the Dam and just take out the Strip or Mccarran.

Things for Mojave are better under NCR. Population is not Enslaved. Legion driven back and powder gangers dealt with.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:43 am

Actually, it's fairly obvious that the Legion has better Military Cabilities than the NCR.

The Legion manages to take out multipule towns and cities along the Colorado and deeper inside NCR territory, while the NCR can barely handle a couple of escaped convicts.

And the Legion seems to have better weapons than the NCR, seeing as though most Veteran Rangers carry around antiquited Lever Action rifles, while Centurions carry around modern day Marksman rifles.

umm the Veteren rangers Carry way better weapons than the Centruions mmmm Which is better a marksmen carbine or a AMR which the NCR veteren rangers carry. They are highley more effective than the centruians. Plus if a Centurions get picked off then the army is uselss. But if the NCR veteran Ranger gets picked off nothing happens just more to fill his place(like they could kill a veteran ranger)

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:52 am

Legion lost the first battel for the Dam. Legion use a nuclear dirty bomb to take out a town. NCR has a very large area to cover and political reason NCR does not send out enough troops. Military Leader wants most troops at the Dam and they a proven right because Caesar attacks the dam. If Caesar was a smart man he would hit NCR where they are not. GO around the Dam and just take out the Strip or Mccarran.

The Legion never used a Nuke, they just opened some radition barrels that where inside the Firehouse; and the Legion has just as much area to cover as the NCR. Confining all you're soldiers in one small area is a bad idea, since you're weakening your flanks.

And Caesar obviously goes around. I mean, Nipton, Cottonwood Cove, Seachlight and Nelson aren't close to the Dam.

And Epicness, Centurions carry Marksmen Rifles, Hunting Shotguns and Anti-Material Rifles aswell; and having a Veteran Ranger get killed would be a Morale hit aswell, since most soldiers consider to be them invincible.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:24 am

why would caesar kill everyone on the strip.
theres alot of potential slaves and i dont think caesar would waste slaves

I don't know but that's what Cachino says

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:43 pm

I don't know but that's what Cachino says

Caesar has a tendency to tell people what they want to hear, so they join him....

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:31 pm

The Legion never used a Nuke, they just opened some radition barrels that where inside the Firehouse; and the Legion has just as much area to cover as the NCR. Confining all you're soldiers in one small area is a bad idea, since you're weakening your flanks.

And Caesar obviously goes around. I mean, Nipton, Cottonwood Cove, Seachlight and Nelson aren't close to the Dam.

No Caesar does not go around. He hits the flanks yes but does not go around. He does not attack the strip head on or Mccaran. He hits the Dam where the bulk of NCR is massed. Which means NCR was smart to put the Bulk of their forces there.

Also when NCR takes control of the Mojave. The population is not enslaved. Legion are driven back and powder gangers dealt with. Only down side are the Taxes. I would take taxes any day then being enslaved.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:33 am

Legion lost the first battel for the Dam.

I think thats more because of Joshua Graham's stupidity than NCR's tactics. IIRC he actually succeeded in capturing the dam, but out of his lust for glory he made his troops chase the fleeing NCR soldiers (which led into a trap) rather than fortify his position.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:53 pm

No Caesar does not go around. He hits the flanks yes but does not go around. He does not attack the strip head on or Mccaran. He hits the Dam where the bulk of NCR is massed. Which means NCR was smart to put the Bulk of their forces there.

Also when NCR takes control of the Mojave. The population is not enslaved. Legion are driven back and powder gangers dealt with. Only down side are the Taxes. I would take taxes any day then being enslaved.

why would he need to attack the strip or mccaran directly when he has the omertas and fiends to do that for him

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:55 am

The Legion never used a Nuke, they just opened some radition barrels that where inside the Firehouse; and the Legion has just as much area to cover as the NCR. Confining all you're soldiers in one small area is a bad idea, since you're weakening your flanks.

And Caesar obviously goes around. I mean, Nipton, Cottonwood Cove, Seachlight and Nelson aren't close to the Dam.

And Epicness, Centurions carry Marksmen Rifles, Hunting Shotguns and Anti-Material Rifles aswell; and having a Veteran Ranger get killed would be a Morale hit aswell, since most soldiers consider to be them invincible.

you can also take back nelson so you can mark that off. Plus you dont rarley see a veteran Ranger die at all. What happend at boulder city the Rangers picked of the centurians and there army fell apart dumb idea to send out high ranking officers into battle to get the killed. Hunting shotguns arnt going to kill from far away at all. Plus rangers would pick them off from hundereds of yards away. Marksmen carbine cant reach that far even though it has like a acog scope on it. Searchlight was a pathetic excuse of taking land buy the CL. They cant even go into the town because the CL uses dirty little radiation. Pathetic

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:22 pm

No Caesar does not go around. He hits the flanks yes but does not go around. He does not attack the strip head on or Mccaran. He hits the Dam where the bulk of NCR is massed. Which means NCR was smart to put the Bulk of their forces there.

Also when NCR takes control of the Mojave. The population is not enslaved. Legion are driven back and powder gangers dealt with. Only down side are the Taxes. I would take taxes any day then being enslaved.

I'm pretty sure that attacking Nipton would be considered 'Going around' them.

Also, what would he gain from attacking McCaran, asisdes from heavy casualties? Have you seen that place? Also, he already has the Fiends attacking McCaran and the area around it, so he doesn't need to go around. The Strip, isn't even a military target for Caesar, so why would he attack that?

And the NCR never manages to get rid of the Vault 19 Powder Gangers.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:37 am

And Caesar is quite modern. Saying that Caesar is using old tactics, is saying that the US Army uses old Tactics; since almost every modern army uses tactics that where made hundreds, and thousands, of years ago.

You're confusing strategy and tactics. Caesar's tactics are quite primitive (understandably enough given his imitation of Rome) due to their reliance on massed shock attacks launched in waves.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:26 pm

you can also take back nelson so you can mark that off.

Well, by that Logic the NCR would be wiped out, since I can kill everyone in Camp Golf, Camp McCarren, Forlorn Hope, the Ranger Stations and that Checkpoint.

Honestly, you're attempts to argue are pathetic at best.

You're confusing strategy and tactics. Caesar's tactics are quite primitive (understandably enough given his imitation of Rome) due to their reliance on massed shock attacks launched in waves.

Obviously, what else can you do when you're trying to take a bridge?

There aren't exactly a whole lot of tactics for that sort of thing.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:12 pm

you can also take back nelson so you can mark that off. Plus you dont rarley see a veteran Ranger die at all. What happend at boulder city the Rangers picked of the centurians and there army fell apart dumb idea to send out high ranking officers into battle to get the killed. Hunting shotguns arnt going to kill from far away at all. Plus rangers would pick them off from hundereds of yards away. Marksmen carbine cant reach that far even though it has like a acog scope on it. Searchlight was a pathetic excuse of taking land buy the CL. They cant even go into the town because the CL uses dirty little radiation. Pathetic

someone already said that the first hoover dam battle was lost because of joshua gram. thay took control of the dam and then the legate foolishly followed the fleeing soldiers.
how is the radiation trick pathetic? I would say that was a smart military tactic that had high results

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:57 pm

why would he need to attack the strip or mccaran directly when he has the omertas and fiends to do that for him

Omertas would not take the strip they would cause alot of chaos but I doubt they would take the strip.

WW2 against Japan America would hit them were they were not. Japan would have islands with tens of thousnads of troops armed to the teeth. America just went around them taking their smaller less defended islands and cutting off supplies. If they attacked all those island bastions WW2 would have been alot bloodier.

Caeser twice attacks head on against NCRs strongest point.The Dam is power yes but what good is power if you take the locations that they dam supplies power to?

And the NCR never manages to get rid of the Vault 19 Powder Gangers.

They do if you deal with the vault 19 powder gangers in the game.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:46 pm

And the NCR never manages to get rid of the Vault 19 Powder Gangers.

Neither does the Legion.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:42 pm

I'm pretty sure that attacking Nipton would be considered 'Going around' them.

Also, what would he gain from attacking McCaran, asisdes from heavy casualties? Have you seen that place? Also, he already has the Fiends attacking McCaran and the area around it, so he doesn't need to go around. The Strip, isn't even a military target for Caesar, so why would he attack that?

And the NCR never manages to get rid of the Vault 19 Powder Gangers.

The powder gangers are peoples least worries. How would the fing fiends cause damage there worthless thats a insult to say that a fiend can kill a ncr trooper. Why wouldnt McCaran be a CL target it has vauble stuff thieer for one the monorail CL could ride over there to the strip.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:52 pm

Well, by that Logic the NCR would be wiped out, since I can kill everyone in Camp Golf, Camp McCarren, Forlorn Hope, the Ranger Stations and that Checkpoint.

Honestly, you're attempts to argue are pathetic at best.

Obviously, what else can you do when you're trying to take a bridge?

There aren't exactly a whole lot of tactics for that sort of thing.

really mine are pathetic have you seen your you just go around in a circle trying to hid up that the NCR is better and you cant admit theres so much evidence that CL is terrible and your ignorant not to see that.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:35 pm

While I am not 100% for the NCR, the legion's use of slavery is extremely uncivilized and the general principles of their society are thousands of years old (such as having 2 people fight to the death in an arena). There are better ways to train your army than by darwinism. Killing your own people is quite possibly the dumbest thing a society could do and just further proves how savage they are.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:38 am

I believe that both the legion and NCR have good intentions but the legion has a harsh way of doing things

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:03 pm

Obviously, what else can you do when you're trying to take a bridge?

:blink: You sure don't rush across in massed formations.

There aren't exactly a whole lot of tactics for that sort of thing.

How about loose formations? Covering fire? Basic tactics that have been around since WWI that Caesar rejects because he likes to emulate Rome far beyond what is healthy.

» Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Omertas would not take the strip they would cause alot of chaos but I doubt they would take the strip.

WW2 against Japan America would hit them were they were not. Japan would have islands with tens of thousnads of troops armed to the teeth. America just went around them taking their smaller less defended islands and cutting off supplies. If they attacked all those island bastions WW2 would have been alot bloodier.

Caeser twice attacks head on against NCRs strongest point.The Dam is power yes but what good is power if you take the locations that they dam supplies power to?

They do if you deal with the vault 19 powder gangers in the game.

what do you think the frumentarii do?
they destroy the monorail cutting off supplies.
and the omertas are used to weaken the strip and makes the troops there weak. that way when the legion attacks it will be swift and easy