Indeed because they bring the dreaded TAXES! hmy:

Yes but doing all of those things does not make someone evil. And who exactly are these refugees they slaughtered? And I don't believe torture is evil if the people deserve it like powder gangers.

@levocious- I'm pretty sure they wouldn't and they'd probably prefer to be left alone than have a money hungry "democracy" or a brutal dictator.

No it kinda does. If you mean the individual Legionnaires aren't evil because they're brainwashed fine I'm not going to get into a debate about that but that doesn't change the fact that the Legion itself is still incredibly evil by any civilized definition of the term.



What about people like the NCR soldiers at Nelson? Did they deserve to be crucified? Just because Caesar's Legion occasionally brutalizes the wicked doesn't make their methods morally acceptable.

those ncr troops knew what would happen if they lost so they should of left the ncr.
oh wait they cant leave the ncr because they would be tagged a deserter and shot on sight

I agree Caeser most likely started the war. NCR just finished fighting a war against the BoS they would not jump at the chance to start a war with the Legion. Thats why NCR adopted the containment approach when it comes to the Legion. Hold them at the Dam.

The very fact Kimball does not make himself dictator shows NCR is dedicated to democracy.



This :tops:

Still don't buy it, but thats your opinion and I have no want to try and change it.

When US troops committed atrocities in Iraq...Abu Graib and incidents where solders r*ped and murdered Iraqi civilians....the Army arrested and prosecuted them as criminals once the crime was discovered because such behavior is not acceptable and a direct violation of US Military Law. As dishonest as the Democrats have been about the Iraq War even they never went so far as to accuse Bush of condoning such behavior. When Vulpes Inculta commits atrocities in the Mojave he is carrying out Caesar's will using methods Caesar either explicitly approves of or is comfortable with. He knows what Vulpes' methods are....he was raised up from a humble Decanus to stand at Caesar's right hand precisely because of them. While Vulpes probably is something of a pervert with sadistic tendencies, what he does is coldly rational and based on a deep understanding of human nature, guerrilla warfare tactics and spycraft.....whatever one thinks of Caesar there is no question he knows talent when he sees it. To me, he is by far the most interesting "evil" NPC in the game and was grossly underused. Hopefully, the "glitch" of him disappearing if you kill him is actually a sign he is slated to appear in any future game that includes the Legion...he will turn out not to have died but have been wounded and escaped using a Stealth Boy.

Allright, we need an explanation here... how are you not evil if you perform evil acts of your own volition? Meaning nobody's forcing you to commit those acts. If you start to talk about the good o'l chain o' command, you need to realize that while they are following orders from above, they still make the concious choice to carry out those orders, and unless taught/drilled otherwise, know that it is in some form that the orders are bad on some level.

There are many things that make someone evil, Hitler was evil, Jefferey Dahmer was not evil, Hitler killed a bunch of people, Jefferey ate a bunch of people. There are many factors than just you kill someone you evil. I am tired and just don't feel like going on anymore. Colonel drained me.

Unfortuantly, most of those differences don't apply to the Legion. Except for raw recruits (i.e. children) they enjoy what they're doing. They see nothing wrong with enslaving and killing, since it's they way of the Legion. They're bringing peace to the Mojave by killing off those who are too weak to survive, enslaving those labeled "Profligates" since they're clearly morally corrupt, and taking in the uncorrupted male childern to serve in their army to help spread their message. And let's not forget that women are worth little more than as breeding machines because that's the natural order.

THAT is what the Legion is. THAT is what every member of the Legion believes. How are they not evil?

I turn my back for one day and you make 2 more debates. How dissapointing.

How do you know they enjoy doing it, assuming most of them are children brought up that way, that's the only thing they know. Nothing indicates they enjoy crucifying people.

Enjoy was probably the wrong word to use, but they certainly believe they're doing the world a favor by crucifying people. Besides, I'm pretty sure most of them aren't saying "Know what? We should stop doing this sort of stuff."

I go to sleep, get up, go to church, come back have tea and already a fifth thread has been made. Wasn't there a 3rd just yesterday?

yea these threads burn through fast

Seems like either way Arcade is screwed over. Very dike move on the NCR's part especially after he helped them although it's easy to expect from such backstabbers.
And about taxes, Imagen this, you are a wastelander wanting to hang on to everything you have got, then a big "democracy" comes along asks forces you to hand your money over. For what? Protection? "Civilisation?" Isn't that what old Mafia gangs used to do? Remember Vault City, where the NCR hired goons to harass the City until they joined? Clever racketeering on the NCR's part, not to mention the NCR doing business with Mr. Bishop a REAL post apocalyptic Mafia boss. Sure CL burst in with all their might to take over an area, but NCR use limp "democracy" to try take over like, parasites. Allot of independent wastelanders (like the north Vegas square civilians and Freeside) would rather not have any of this so called "protection" lording over them 24/7 taking their money away and leaving them with nothing. I may be biased on this matter but who isn't, this is a debate two sides of the coin. In my honest opinion in a POST-APOCALYPTIC WASTELAND I just think taxes are the most ridiculous thing ever to come out of anyone's mouth in any wasteland anywhere.

I agree with what you wrote, however your quote is wrong. I have the actual quote by Ben Franklin in my sig. The actual quote does not have quite the same meaning as what you wrote.

The NCR may be better for the Mojave, but not by much. The corruption kills.

Legion believes that everyone else in the mojave is profligates eg undereducated savages. You are either legion or a profiligate. That is what they believe. I dont think they are evil, its what Ceaser taught them. Another strategy he made to make sure his legion gives no mercy.

By pure definition, I do agree that NCR citizens and troops are mere profligates. But it is a state of mind that has certainly benefited the Legion in its war against the NCR.

I hope Fallout 4 or Fallout: *name here* will give a better insight to the Legion, maybe this time a legionary will be on the cover this time around :disguise:.

DLC, perhaps?
I'm not too hopeful.

You do what you have to do and crucifying people is a great war strategy and they believe it's right. It may not be the best thing, but they are doing what they believe.

I suspect there will be.......ever notice how Vulpes Inculta's body vanishes when you kill him? I'm not so sure that's a glitch or bug.

no its sick and demented. Its cruel and cheap way of doing so. If NCR civilians seen NCR troopers doing this they would freak out and probably move somewhere else.also what they believe in is totatly wrong they need to get into the modern area of the Wasteland or there going to be stuck in the past.

BTW: this is insane i was one thread 4 of this yesterday and alread theres a 5