ok so im up to the part where i Have to pick a side and i frankly dont care. im just going to put down some facts of what ive heard and been told.

Stormcloaks- rebelled against the legion for not letting the worshiping of talos which the high elves started by stating hes not o god just a man who did some heroic stuff, the rebelion started in markarth with the slaughtering of talos worshiper.
then Ulfric Stormcloak shouted and blew up the high king and rebellion was born.

Legion- want to keep the old ways of the Nords alive
other then that ive got nothing on them

both sides don't sound appealing to me so if anyone has anything else to add go for it

The Empire.

I went Legion, without spoilers the Province is better off without institutionalized racism and prejudice being law. End of discussion imo.

legion, just trying to keep the empire intact so the elves don't run it into the ground.

Ulfric is just creating trouble and trying to steal power for himself and be a racist tyrant. Yay nationalism!

I chose The Empire, purely because they seemed mostly like the "good guys", even though there is no good guys in this battle. But Stormcloaks are more of the bad guys, though.

Go with the Legion if you want peace and religious freedom in the long run, go with the Stormcloaks if you support the Thalmor and want them to take over the empire. Read the in-game book "The Great War" and you'll never side with the Stormcloaks again unless you're role-playing.

The Legion are the good guys if you can call them that, the storm cloaks are full of racists and bigots and Ulfric has basically turned the Dunmer part of his city into a sewer while allowing the import/export companies at the ports to treat Argonians as virtual slaves. Some people blame the Dunmer for their situation, however this situation is vastly different to the Riften situation where the the Dunmer have helped the city out tremendously and it is the thieves guild that is the real problem there.

Also the Thalmor didn't really care if people were worshipping Talos in skyrim. It was only Ulfric's actions that lead to them hunting down and imprisoning or killing Talos worshippers. The Empire hides the fact it still worships Talos, it clearly still does but after the war with the Thalmor they're licking their wounds waiting for the next war which both the Thalmor and Empire know is coming as the Thalmor also are just biding their time by licking their respective wounds. Ulfric is weakening Skyrim and the Empire in his actions and giving the Thalmor the advantage for the upcoming war.

Imperial law legitimizes religious prejudice, regardless of whether or not the law against Talos worship is enforced or not.

I have been debating with myself about this topic for a while. And I have started to listen to what regular people say instead of people in power like Jarls or Tullius or Ulfric.

And one of them- an Imperial male farmer- said "My roots are in Cyrodiil, but Nord or not, Skyrim is my home".

I'm beginning to think that Skyrim should have self-rule. But not under Ulfric. He wants to cause strife among his own people to get his way. The Imperials want to end strife. I'm starting to side with putting down the rebellion. That doesn't mean I'm pro-Imperial.

Stormcloaks. Nord pride world wide.

But in my first run I NEVER chose a side. When do you have to? To some extent I hated them both, but the Imperials decided lollygagging around the border is a crime punishable by death. The Imperials didn't seem like they were going to really fight the Thalmor anyway, just complain about how they wanted to.

I don't want to be a puppet of the Thalmor.

But I don't want to weaken Skyrim by driving the Empire away from it.

The only option left is to KILL EVERYONE.

if your a true son of skyrim stormcloak if you want to summit to the elves legion

Never really thaught of that. Must do it with my Bosmer, since I can't really decide for the reasons laid out in this thread.

For one Ulfric is a racist bigot who only wants power and is only using Talos as an excuse. On the other side Hammerfell has fared better against the Thalmor without the Empire, I mean, the Empire wanted to turn over possessions in Hammerfell to them and the Redguards just said F*** YOU. Not to mention the Empire wanted to kill me and revenge is a pretty strong cause to just [censored] em up.

@trickyturkey

The Empire isn't really submitting to the Elves, they are just pretending, because another war with the Thalmor is inevitable.

i also wondered that when we killed tallius we said this is what the elves wanted, and since then i regretted my decision and was wondering if its best if i start a new character and side with the imperials i might do that tonight

My character hates the Thalmor, so, somewhat counter-intuitively, the Empire was the best bet for Skyrim (he's also a Nord). While the Empire did sign the White-Gold Concordat, many people in the Legion, including Tullius himself, hint to the peace between the Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire being uneasy. The Thalmor are a lot less subtle about it, pretty much saying "Yeah we are gonna kill you all pretty soon." A unified Empire would be better adapted to deal with this threat than a divided one, so the Legion was the way to go for my character.

"I'm heading to Solitute to join the legion. I wanna be on the right side."

Neither, kill both sides and declare yourself the High King of Skyrim

They both are implemented poorly enough that you won't even care half-way through.

Dragonborn equals Emperor not high king (unless a Nord). Technically the PC has a legitimate claim the throne of Imperial Empire, and if they did claim it, it'd weaken the Thalmor... shame you don't seem to be able to do that...

Skyrim does have self-rule. Skyrim is the Empire - Cyrodiil's just used as a convenient hang-out for those who can't take the cold.

Stormcloaks cause looks just but . That's why i sided with the Empire.

Ulfric isn't really a racist or even power hungry. No, really.

Yeah, everyone around him and the people in his kingdom will slander him, but if you actually side with them, there are many things he says that go against what you think about him before siding with them.

If anything, his right-hand man Galmar is the one directing some of Ulfric's goals. True, Ulfric does want to be crowned High King; but he recognizes that he has no legitimate claim to the throne and only wants to be High King because he believes he is the only one qualified. He believes that only a true Nord should be High King, and not someone who is merely a pawn of the Empire like Elisif would be. He, and many others in his rebellion, LOVE the Empire; just not this Empire, under Thalmor rule.

I can respect that. I can even sorta kinda respect his xenophobia because he's not actually being racist; he's being paranoid about Imperial spies.

Imperials are [censored]s. they just do what they are told like a bunch of sheep. Shur Ulfric and the stormcloaks are racists. But atleast they are for themselves and not foreigners. Imperials also tried to chop off your head.
Anyway. How many sucesful rebellion leaders, or thier faction stay in power. Eventually it would be taken by the people and the thalmor won't be in charge Nor will Ulfric. So go with the rights of the masses, not the few cowards. As for the slaves. they should rebel. Or go the way of the snow elfs.

The previous high king would have turned against the empire in a heartbeat if he thought he could get the support of the Jarls but Ulfric murdered him. Ulfric's motivation is the crown, he is manipulating the people around him, what he does is an act, he likes to pretend he is high and mighty. He also used the way of the voice in the murder, if you speak to the greybeards you find out that everything about their way of the voice is encouraging peace and worshiping the aedra, so he just trampled all over their beliefs when he did that.

He does admit the finishing blow was with a dagger to the heart (not a sword or an axe, it was not an honorable killing) and that he used the shouts that he learnt from the greybeards to paralyze the highking.

To OP, any attempt to discuss this matter will unavoidably end in a nonsense flame war where claims of racism and corruption lead to WW II comparations and stupid shortshighted reasoning.

Both sides have their reasons to fight, both could be legitimized one way or the other, and both have their darker side. Whatever you choose, you won't regret It.
As for me, I chose the Stormcloaks, for reasons I'm not to explain again.

The Legion. While there is a lot of grey and both sides have got some answering to do about the things they have done the Empire generally looks to be better for people of all races. But the Empire is in a bad position, still they are doing the best they can, playing along, till they are in a position to make things better.

My main character would probably find the Stormcloaks aspiration for independence more admirable and maybe supportable if it weren't for Ulfric and the timing. They'd think Ulfric is power hungry and a racist (or speciesist) and not fit to rule a nation. They'd think the timing was terrible since it would simply isolate Skyrim in a time of strife and make it so much easier for the Thalmor to march on in which in turn makes it that make harder for the Empire to hold out and keep protecting the people.

For my Thalmor sympathizer/deep cover agent I would totally support the Stormcloaks. :biggrin: