The College took me awhile because it took me forever to get powerful enough to defeat Morokei.

I enjoyed the quest line, but I think the thing where you rise to the head of a guild is a common Bethesda failing: even if it'd taken much longer, it would've still seemed incongruous and I'd have been happier with a middling position somewhere, which would've still been quite an achievement. But rising to the top seems both a little unrealistic and makes the world feel a little smaller, at least to me.

I dont get it why everyone is complaining about the length of the game ... its [censored] long!!! 40 hours and maybe you have the main quest and some of the guilds but thats not all you can do. ANd 40 hours is much longer then any of the newer games. If you then dont do quicktravel and you do all the side quests then you are about 200 hours or way more if you role play it!! And that is really really long!!!

Took a lot longer for me. In fact, The College of Winterhold felt more like the 2nd "Main Quest", instead of the extremely bland Civil War.

Yes, the game is long and there are a lot of side quests. But the faction questlines are borderline ridiculous on how short they are. Their main stories are all just a handful of quests and at the end of it you end up as their guildmaster. It makes zero sense that a group of people that you just met, all of a sudden recognize you as their leader after some serious turmoil inside their group.

Add the complete lack of ranks and factions not having any requirements on top of that and you end up with very bland guilds.

same here... the dungeon crawls were nice and long, but the q-line was short in itself

YES. This. As much as I hate the dumbing-down of this game, I do NOT regret shelling out $60 dollars for it because I know once the overhauls come out...this game will be AMAZING.

And then Bethesda will steal the best mod and implement it into the next Fallout/TES title and call it "hardcoe". Heh.

so its about complexity not the length. And there are of course the radiant quests. I agree that it is easy to become the guildmaster. Except thieves guild. And then theres nothing to do for you even if you are themaster. No special missions or what so ever BUT that is way more then any other game the last few years has to offer. Could there be more SURE as for every game it can be expanded and tweaked and made better but in its current state it is brilliant and entertaining. I dont feel betrayed for buying it. And that is something nowadays

ON EASY MAYBE!

You make this sound like a good thing. Mods are great, but the game itself should not be a mere platform for them. It should be a complete, full game in itself. Console users cannot use mods, after all. :confused:

The problem isn't the comparison to other modern games. The problem is the comparison to Morrowind and Oblivion.

In Morrowind you got extreme long questlines, 10 ranks in a guild each with a requirement (as Guildmaster you need to have one major Guild skill above 90), a massive amount of guilds which interact with each other (you can't be head of thieves and fighters at the same time for example) and you actually feel like you deserve the position after completing the questline.

In Oblivion requirements were cut (except for fencing in the Thieves Guild), ranks were less, but it still was a good amount of quests (I seem to remember 10-12 for each guild) and the quests were better thought out than in Morrowind, therefore you felt like you were the logical choice for Guildmaster.

Now we go to Skyrim and it takes 6 quests to ascend to Guildmaster? This is complete and utter [censored], even though the quests are fun, but not as good as the quests in Oblivion! That is the biggest flaw, you get less, shorter and worse guild questlines. Srsly...

//edit

Btw: Skyrim makes up for it with the awesome dungeons in my opinion, but still the Guilds are a disappointment!

The College is definitely the weakest of the "guild" questlines. It's a shame too because it has a lot of potential, is fairly engrossing, and the Psiijic Order looks to be fairly intriguing.

I'd have loved more Radiant quests before being allowed to don the ArchMage's robes.

It felt somewhat rushed... They never really explain the Eye, the Great Collapse, the Psiijic Order or Magnus itself.

Honestly, I miss how much we had to do back in the days of Morrowind. I was surprised too when I was just jumped to Arch Mage like that. I was all... "is this it?"

I will agree with the post a few above mine, though. While the quests are underwhelming, I absolutely loved the dungeons. Hell, that one where we had to fetch the Staff really caught me off guard.

What's this? Aww, it's just some skeletons, those things are no threat atOHCRAPWHATTHEHELLISTHAT?! Okay, got past that... wow, that was tricky with no health upgrades or armor... Let's see what's around her--- Huh. I asploded. Oooh, that's a clever puzzle. Apparently, one I svck at, too. Finally make it through. Come on, boss fi---Wait, I'm already dead? His attack dropped me to 5 HP?! Oh... oh dear... I'm only playing on adept, too... I wonder what master would be like...

I never got that feeling of HELL YEAH after clearing a dungeon back in Morrowind. It felt good to tackle all the challenges.

I just... I kinda wish there was more where that came from. Well, at least we have the inevitable expansion packs to look forward to, right? Hopefully they'll expand on a lot of the potential.

I had the same with the Companions and the Thieves Guild. Only the Dark Brotherhood has some sense in you being the head of the chapter.

Well I am not trying to make it sound good or bad but merely taking a pragmatic view of the game. I wish they put more thought into quests and didn't break the magic system but I love that its open ended with room for modders to be creative and expand upon the game (mods make it truly epic). As for console players I know that they are trying to work out how to implement mods for them but its not worked out as of yet. Perhaps in the future.

Mage College: I agree, You get admitted then 3 hours later you are the arch mage after one major event? The Mage's Guild in Oblivion is 100x better. It was so deep a story and was easy to get svcked in. This one was shallow. It still was fun to do but I wished it lasted a lot longer.

Honestly, I think the big problem is that we keep going from "The new guy" straight to "the top guy". When you have to move up the ranks, it gives you a better sense of accomplishment, you know?

I also really miss all the options we used to have. Back in the days of Morrowind, we had what... at least eight factions, right? Here, it's like... four... Having never played Oblivion, it really feels like a sharp decline almost.

I know. I am loving the game to bits, but if I had one gripe it is this. If only there was a bit more flesh on those wonderful, wonderful bones guilds.

And heh, my answer to everything is often quests and more quests, sorry for the wordiness, I posted this a short while ago about my (wild dreams) thoughts on becoming guild heads:

Skills - yes, they must be high.

Guild specific flavor quests at the top level - each guild has its own flavor, the traits it admires and I would like to see its own politics and ways of rising to the top on display:

a.In the fighters guild I could see a duel with the current boss being a good decider
b. I like my mages to have politics (as I picture mages) - perhaps the guild council has to vote. This means winning their votes, getting their vote disposition towards you high. Some might be easier (successfully flattering some vain illusionist), some hard - proving you skill to a conjurer, having to come up with a nonlethal poison that will overcome the alchemical masters special potion of resistance, getting on the right side of a racist mage if you are non Altmer or *insert race here* etc. Some eccentric magery perhaps (a touch of Telvanni if you will). Perhaps some secret missions given to you by a mage that hates the current archmage that will let you damage his standing so votes are more likely to come your way.
c. Some sort of flamboyant skill testing for the thieves.
d. The DB seems fine as is due to the connection with mother.
e. To rise to the highest rank of the Legion you will prove your worth by leading an operation to take out the thieves guild/DB.

Or switch them up. The mages like a duel to demonstrate mastery of the arcane, the fighters want to see some flamboyant skill test (run from point a to point b initially with no armor and armed only an unenchanted dagger - of course there will be some lethal foes lurking), the thieves are the cloak and dagger politicians who you have to convince to vote for you.

With the mage quests one it doesn't need to be an actual quest (because I like the idea of uncertainty so no list of names in the journal with an "accomplished" next to it). Maybe the mages give some hints in conversation - the quest is become archmage. You get to call the vote when you wish. During that time you go round and try to act on those little verbal hints and win people to your side. Maybe you succeed, maybe you fail, maybe some you are unsure about.

Other ideas?

*Sigh* One can dream, can't one?



Are you jesting? I thought the DB quest line was really very good and at the conclusion had a brief sit there, mouth open thinking "did I just do that?"

I think that the narrative part of Bethesda's games are its achilles heel in terms of game design. Beth have always been very weak in the storytelling department, despite having access to such a rich library of lore and culture. If they could somehow invest in these areas as well they will produce a game that has no equal (even tho it already has no equal lol..)

They need to improve ..


- Faction Questline Length. Morrowind length seemed right to me, the individual house questlines were so epic.
- Narrative and storytelling is somewhat weak, there are never any memorable characters in the TES games.
- Companions, lack depth and personality. They have no quest chains, require no effort to romance them or befriend them and banter is a bit weak. If they could add another layer to game in the form of memeorable companions we can get attached to, this would really add to the game.

The Mage College central quest is short, but if you go back and help everyone... there is a lot to do. It feels odd in a way to have so much more questing to do with the mage college after the story is supposedly over.

You could say that the order and pacing is all wrong.

It isn't even the number of guilds for me. While I will never say no to another with its own flavor and style I would rather 3 with excellent (and hopefully long, complex) quest lines, that a whole bunch with short ones.



I know I was relieved when I saw that. Went "phew" and everything because I initially went "awwww" when it seems I had completed the mages (since I tend to favor magic my character had almost made a beeline for the collage.)

Oh, definitely. I'm with you all the way Ushay, that's definitely their weakness.

Sadly, it's the weakness of most game developers nowadays... At least Bathesda does have an edge on them in worldbuilding, though.

@Quant: I know what you mean, but one thing Morrowind did have was the way the guilds interact. I don't think skyrim even has that. I remember doing one quest where my dual membership in Hlaluu and the Thieves guild wound up triggering an alternate way of solving the problem. I like things like that, where it actually feels like the world is interacting with one another.

Here, it's... isolated groups, with tons and tons and tons of Bandits/Witches/Necormancers in between. Skyrim... really hates you.

It wasn't that long thats true, but this applies to other quest lines in Skyrim, too. That makes the overall experience also short.

i completly agree. When i first became archmage i was thinking to myself, wtf? is this it?! I wish the quests were harder, atleast the final battle.