What do you mean by 'cRPG'? Google Will only tell me that it means 'computer role-playing game', which can't be what you mean, since you're saying most of the computer games on the list are RPGs. I just haven't come across the term before.

I haven't played some of the games on the list, but of those I'd only be inclined to deny the label to Portal and Minecraft. Thinking about it, I find Skyrim actually facilitates more role-playing (for me) than Baldur's Gate and other classic RPGs, since I'm just directly in charge of one character, playing through his eyes.

This is weird. Almost every single game in that list is factually an RPG. I don't have some self test for what must be an RPG, though every single one of those examples in the genre is in fact in the genre. All that is required is for the game to be designed and marketed as an RPG. I have never come across an example of a game where that doesn't pan out. FFXIII comes closest, but linear does not mean "not RPG," and its combat system is still deeply rooted in stats (which isn't necessary but does boost the "RPG-ness" as I interpret it).

When it comes to role playing though, Skyrim is far above average. For me an RPG can mean many things. For the Final Fantasy series that is experiencing a story and (for most of them) exploring a world with pre-defined characters. For TES that means exploring a world and its lore as my own character. They don't all play the same way, or satisfy me as an RPG fan the same way, but it's silly to try and claim some RPGs aren't RPGs all because they aren't the particular type one likes.

I do find it very hilarious that FFXII has less votes than 7/8 even though it's easily the most TES-like of all the Final Fantasies though, as far as exploration goes.


Console RPGs aren't limited by the hardware unless the company puts graphics first. Most console RPGs (at least until recently) have focused on telling a pre-defined story and letting you guide the characters through it, most often letting you explore a world. It's not that they are "limited by consoles" it's just they are a different kind of RPG entirely.

I love Final Fantasy VI/Xenogears/Chrono Trigger just as much as any TES I've played, but for totally different reasons. They're all RPGs, but they play nothing alike.

It's actually better hardware that is starting to limit RPGs. When things were sprites or more simple polygonal models it was simple to make a large world to explore. Now with pretty pretty graphics the focus of everything and voice being the norm RPG design is shackled by expensive vocal/graphical budgets.

Actually I'd go so far to say that few if any genres are limited by console hardware currently, other than with the Wii. Perhaps some due to the Xbox 360's DVD medium, but most aren't and it's again due to the voice/graphics that the DVD isn't big enough to begin with. The scope of the vast majority of games out there console or PC irrelevant is limited by the budget and time allocation to the development team and not the hardware. Perhaps new genres will come about in the future that use the hardware for actual game play reasons, but currently if there are any it's rare.

And that's exactly what makes it less of a roleplaying game. Because roleplaying game is about your character, his skills and abilities, not yours. When you substitute some of your character's actions with your own, the game immediately stops being an cRPG in the classic sense and becomes an action RPG.

And before some lemon starts throwing haters around, I'm not saying that's bad. I spent hundreds of hours playing action RPGs myself. But they're not real roleplaying games and never will be.

Minecraft = nothing

Ahh, okay, a cRPG is a classic RPG? If so, it's funny that I used the term myself in my last post immediately after asking what a cRPG is, haha.

I see what you're saying, and I think you definitely have a point; especially when it comes to real-time combat and mini-games like Skyrim's lockpicking minigame. For me, though, more modern first-person single-character games seem to better allow me to play the role of my character. To put it a different way, classic RPGs feel more like 'character-direction games' to me (although I still enjoy them!). Obviously, it's personal opinion, and I may well be in the minority. I do get where you're coming from, and your opinion is every bit as valid as my own.

Hello, RPGCodexian! :biggrin: I'm trying to see what the popular consensus deems RPGs to be. For this purpose, your vaunted cRPGs are excluded, because it's a foregone conclusion that they'll be considered RPGs.


Ignore it. RPGCodexians (science bless them) cling to RPGs like Betrayal at Krondor and Planescape, and anything outside those bounds is not considered an RPG. They may have a point or may not, but this poll is not intended to investigate this definition nor the games that fall within its ambit.

Would be easier for me to say DA 2 is NOT an RPG but an action shooter, ok ok, action slasher then!

Skyrim is on par with the others in the series in my opinion.

Not GTA, but I might consider Saints Row the Third an RPG if it was up on the list. It's got enough elements (character progression/development with upgrades, levels, equipment with their own upgrades, choices that affect the world, etc)

I've mentioned it on the boards before, but the definition for RPGs are blurry nowadays.

People actually voted for minecraft, oh wow.

No idea why the OP didn't include Minesweeper and Hearts.. those are the best RPG's.

Dude, you put the FFs, DA 2, the Portals, WoW and Minecraft as choices into a RPG poll ? Then you forgot the Sims, ME 1&2, the Battlefields, Soul Reavers, the GTAs, etc etc
Think you got it wrong from the very start.

Care to tell us what each of those games is then?

Oh, I see you go on to talk about cRPGs vs action RPGs - so apprently not even Morrowind is a cRPG. Care tell us what each of these games is then, plus your list of cRPG that are cRPG in your learned experience?



I can think of few RPGs where I substitute my characters mastery of magic or thieving with my own. I don't remember doing that in Skyrim. I do RP my character however - I have a concept, I play that character to the concept and change accordingly with the story by doing what I think that character can do.

I can think of pretty much all RPGs where my characters intelligence/wisdom is my own, though how many numbers I have in in those fields (if they games rely on that kind of mechanic) might limit my conversation options in that area or make mastering a spell harder.

The fact that WoW is not only included in this poll, but has over 40 votes., explains why this forum is confused.
Anyone that thinks WoW is linked to roleplaying simply has no idea.

Blizzard even removed the RPG letters and refer to their game as a MMO.

Νo, no, simply no.

Wiki quote:



The bold letters are the core elements of an RPG. If they are the main characteristics of a game THAT game is called an RPG. And that is what an RPG is.
If we take them as "factually" RPGs then every action game out there is an RPG since most action games nowadays have some minor character development (e.g. Crysis)
We could also consider the Sims or GTA as rpg's because they have immersion and replayability.

And no WoW is not an RPG. It is a MMORPG which is a completely different thing. I would actually go as far as to say that it is not even a MMORPG and it is just a MMOG. I could write a bloody book about this but, trust me, i know it first-hand.

Minecraft is not an RPG. I'm playing minecraft and i also know this first hand. It has ZERO character development, NO quests, NO narrative elements or developed story-telling, and NO complexity (not the kind of complexity that is mentioned in the quote). (Enchantments are not character development.)

As for Portal, i haven't played it but i know it's an action game with adventure elements and having some slight elements an rpg might have definitely does not make it an rpg.

:slap:

Besides the obvious games (minecraft, Portal) the only games on the poll I do not consider RPGs are the Final Fantasy games.

It has an RPG system of sorts in it, yes. But you have absolutely no control over the development of your character, nor do you have any options when it comes to dialogue (unless that's changed since 10 since I gave up on the series after that bombshell). An RPG is not defined by the stats as a whole. It is defined by the ability to create and develop a character within a certain set of rules to accomplish goals set by the fictional character. Since the Final Fantasy series has never really had this, I consider them pseudo-RPG adventure games. They are essentially Legend of Zelda games with an expanded inventory system, multiple party members and leveling.

Minecraft is starting to become an RPG; but again, it has no real character development. It has a leveling system... Of sorts. It might be fleshed out more as the development of the game continues though. It is looking that way to me.

And Portal? Portal is a freakin' shooter/puzzle/platformer. If anyone considers that an RPG (which I can tell at least 1 person does) they are either voting for it for the lulz or really dense.

Isn't it hilarious how Wikipedia definition of all things would be packed full of what Wikipedia articles should not include? "Fulfilling quests", "developed story-telling and narrative elements", "player character development", "complexity", "replayability" and "immersion" are all [weasel words].



I already did, but I guess you were too busy coming up with a way to make a jab at me to actually read my post. All listed games are action RPGs except for Portal, which is a puzzle game, and Minecraft, which isn't a game at all. BG, NWN and IW are different - they don't mix player and character skill like all other listed games do, but they're dungeon crawlers focused solely on combat, so they can't be called proper cRPGs.



Then let me enlighten you: casting a spell in Skyrim requires you aiming it properly, which requires your skill. Lockpicking is a minigame largely based on your skill.

lol when 10 ppl voted for minecraft in a discussion about rpgs someone needs to bust out a definition



lol nvm, by the wikipedia definition's first line it covers any video game ever made

Haha, so true.

All of them except Portal for me.

if you vote above par you are lying to yourself or just ignorant. However fun the game might be , it's not an RPG. I think Bethesda is redefining the sandbox genre in a way no one or few others do.

weasel words? lol.

Please share your normative model of video/computer game genres with us. Something that would go beyond a descriptive framework based on traditional narrative elements.



Oh, nvm, forget what I said before. Someone else will have to come up with that model. :sadvaultboy:

I think the real question here is if you can even consider Dragon Age 2 to be a game.

Well, when one starts taking Wikipedia as a reliable unbiased encyclopedia/source of knowledge he may as well use google translate on professional basis for translations :nono:
If someone who owns the Encyclop?dia Britannica could check it out, kplzthx~

@OP : i was serious in my previous post. :slap:

So you say that wikipedia says weasel words and discard it! Weasel worlds? Where did you even get that?
And at the same time you call Portal, Minecraft and Wow RPGs? Well then you must be right!




So that you know: Wikipedia is always correct. And why is that? Because of the way Wikipedia works (won't anolyze that search it yourself). Not to mention studies have shown that it is as accurate and more helpful than official expert encyclopedias.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html see what you can learn in a gaming forum?

A game can be considered an RPG if it focuses on the points i mention. Beyond that, there are sub-genres which define games that focus on additional elements or don't focus on one or more of the basic elements. Simple as that.