so let me get this straight

Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:18 am

I support the Imperials. For the Empire!
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Ebou Suso
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:32 pm

He'll deny this at first saying Skyrim hasn't even had a true high king in a long time. He used a thu'rm or dragonshout to weaken the king which he learnt from the Greybeards which is a violation of all the Greybeards beliefs in the way of the voice. After weakening the high king, Ulfric plunged a dagger into the king which he admits if you talk to him about it; People are split over if it was a fair fight or a cold blooded murder, it's likely the latter given the weapon of choice.

Spoiler
It's rather clear after the end of the stormcloak campaign that the position of High is all Ulfric was really after from the beginning, he intends to use his stormcloaks to force the Jarls to appoint him high king, at least the Jarls likely to oppose his appointment. If any Jarl refuses to accept Ulfric as High King it's likely only death awaits them. Ulfric might be greedy but he isn't an idiot, he plans to ready himself for full on war with the Aldmeri and Ulfric would have no qualms about attacking them if they were to attack Cyrodiil or Hammerfell




So he claims, it's hard to know if he is really telling the truth but his actions do show that he has no care at all about the other races.



Primarily this is the Dunmer who fled Marrowind because of the issues with the Red Mountain which caused a lot of Dunmer to flee Marrowind. The Dunmer alive when this happened kinda deserved it however on the most part, their children do not tho. As for the Argonians in Windhelm, they're treated as virtual slaves and have done nothing to deserve this, if you aren't a nord they don't care. Ulfric also played a part in the raids/invasion on the Forsworn home city of Markarth, which appears to be a generally unprovoked attack against the primarily Breton inhabitants and Nords of skyrim have a horrible history of attacking the Bretons in usually unprovoked attacks.



Imperials are Humans just like the Nords and are of common descent, Imperials tend to care about all the races which can be a weakness sometimes considering a lot of the provinces would like to see the Imperials dead. The Imperials are over-stretched and the Aldmeri Dominion believes all humans have to die, so the Imperials need to harden up and accept that a real war with Summerset Isle may be needed. Not all Altmer support the Aldmeri Dominion tho, some even stand firmly against it and so a war with the Aldmeri Dominion may not be as bloody as everybody thinks it will be.



yes and no, Skyrim has a high king and pretty much rules itself, it is a part of the empire as are all the provinces so the empire does remain the highest authority. I would suggest you think of it a bit like USA but without democracy, the Emperor is a bit like the president, the high king is state governor and below him are the more regional Jarls. It was the Nords that pretty much set this up to begin with, the only thing that changed is the line of succession for Emperor switched to Imperials instead of Nords (dragon borns are primarily candidates for the position of emperor). The problem the Nords have is the peace treaty, the White-Gold Concordat which is a sign of weakness on the empires part for having even fallen into the position to have to sign that. Hammerfell also are not happy with the Imperial Empire over that either and feel the Empire abandoned them in their moment of need.



Not exactly, they signed the White-Gold Concordat with the Aldmeri Dominion and are pretending it's banned in-line with the White-Gold Concordat which prohibits Talos Worship; however the empire has made no real action in the enforcement for it and so the Thalmor are having to do that manually themselves. Everybody knows they is going to be another war and the Thalmor realize they can't really enforce the ban on Talos with the empire doing effectively nothing, instead they're trying to use it to force a loss of confidence in the Imperial Empire. The harder the Thalmor push the more the Nords react but they react against the Empire instead of against the Thalmor. The stormcloaks unfortunately aren't very bright else they'd realize the deeper strategy at play, however racism is also fairly common among the stormcloaks and it shouldn't be a surprise they're not the brightest of people in the world.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that they're "pretending" the ban of Talos
because from what I've seen while playing skyrim is that the imperial guards really do want to enforce the ban as much as they can
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~Amy~
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:22 am

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that they're "pretending" the ban of Talos
because from what I've seen while playing skyrim is that the imperial guards really do want to enforce the ban as much as they can

It's because the Thalmor are now in Skyrim and they are watching the Empire closely to see if they are really upholding the treaty. Before the Thalmor were in Skyrim the ban wasn't enforced as long the people kept it private, but the Markarth incident changed that. The Markarth incident got the Dominion's attention that the Empire wasn't upholding their end of the treaty as such they sent their agents the Thalmor to do the job the Empire wouldn't do.
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Leticia Hernandez
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:17 pm

It's because the Thalmor are now in Skyrim and they are watching the Empire closely to see if they are really upholding the treaty. Before the Thalmor were in Skyrim the ban wasn't enforced as long the people kept it private, but the Markarth incident changed that. The Markarth incident got the Dominion's attention that the Empire wasn't upholding their end of the treaty as such they sent their agents the Thalmor to do the job the Empire wouldn't do.

so what exactly happened at markharth?
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Scotties Hottie
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:51 pm

I can make this easy for you...

Stormcloaks are very similar to a German political party that was large in the 30's - 40's. Am not gonna say which really.. :P
Hence why i did NOT join them :D

Ive always believed in unitation. Anything that can unite several countries to one is good (UN for example) So i chose without a doubt the Empire
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Lizzie
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:14 am

If only the Empire was strong enough i would like them to pull out of Skyrim and let the Thalmor ravage the stormcloaks, we'll see if "NORDS SHOULD RULE SKYRIM" works now, idiots.
Man the more i play, the more i hate the stormcloaks. Anyway what Alvor says at the start (if you followed hadvar) makes all the sense in the world to me and pretty much sums up the whole imperial/stormcloak thing :)
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Darren
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:14 pm

I can make this easy for you...

Stormcloaks are very similar to a German political party that was large in the 30's - 40's. Am not gonna say which really.. :P
Hence why i did NOT join them :D

Ive always believed in unitation. Anything that can unite several countries to one is good (UN for example) So i chose without a doubt the Empire

and I've always believed that generalization is dangerous.
so is tying any groups to be similar to that specific German political party you're speaking of without a very good reason.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:45 pm

If only the Empire was strong enough i would like them to pull out of Skyrim and let the Thalmor ravage the stormcloaks, we'll see if "NORDS SHOULD RULE SKYRIM" works now, idiots.
Man the more i play, the more i hate the stormcloaks. Anyway what Alvor says at the start (if you followed hadvar) makes all the sense in the world to me and pretty much sums up the whole imperial/stormcloak thing :)

remind me again what Alvor says?
and I think to the stormcloaks it might be the case of be bossed around by the Imperials or the Thalmor.
the thalmor might be a bit worse than the imperials however..
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dell
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:43 pm

so what exactly happened at markharth?

During the Great War the Empire recalled its legions to fight aganist the Dominion. Because of that the Forsworn took the opportunity to take back the Reach away from the Nords. After the Great War ended, the Empire wanted the Reach back however they didn't have the resources to take the Reach back. So in order to take back the Reach the Empire turned to Ulfric to take it back in exchange to being allowed to worship Talos publicly. When both sides agreed to this Ulfric took back the Reach from the Forsworn in a bloody battle. However the Dominion heard about this deal and demanded the Empire to clean up the mess they created. The Empire then arrested Ulfric and his compatriots to show they were upholding the treaty. This was also one of the main reasons for the Civil War as well.
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Loane
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:25 pm

Unity is an illusion, a diversion to subdue those who can't accept that others should have the right to live the way they want...

"You have to live my way, and like it. Sign this, saying you will do it, so I don't have to kill you. Oh, and pay taxes, so I can live the way I want to live, off your hard work."

They don't want to kill everyone... dead people only yield a few hundred gold... Live people will make you thousands every year... They are cattle... Like vampire-bats keep cattle alive, so they can feast forever off one life, instead of having to hunt for new life after every meal. (That is the "key" to advanced civilizations. The success of all thriving nations.)

I am helping the mud-crabs... They were here first... Kill the humans!
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Jack
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:37 am

During the Great War the Empire recalled its legions to fight aganist the Dominion. Because of that the Forsworn took the opportunity to take back the Reach away from the Nords. After the Great War ended, the Empire wanted the Reach back however they didn't have the resources to take the Reach back. So in order to take back the Reach the Empire turned to Ulfric to take it back in exchange to being allowed to worship Talos publicly. When both sides agreed to this Ulfric took back the Reach from the Forsworn in a bloody battle. However the Dominion heard about this deal and demanded the Empire to clean up the mess they created. The Empire then arrested Ulfric and his compatriots to show they were upholding the treaty. This was also one of the main reasons for the Civil War as well.

so.. it's not really ulfric's fault, I take it?
not entirely, at least. because people were making it sound like ulfric made the markharth incident happen and that the ban on talos got even tighter because of him.
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Guy Pearce
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:00 pm

Nords are hypocritical, Read into what the nords did to the forsworn, and anyone who did not join them against the forsworn. Forsworn were not always the way they are today.
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:13 pm

so.. it's not really ulfric's fault, I take it?
not entirely, at least. because people were making it sound like ulfric made the markharth incident happen and that the ban on talos got even tighter because of him.

It was both sides fault in the end. The Empire should have realized that the Dominion would get sniff of this and well Ulfric's involvement goes to spoiler territory. Don't click if you don't want to know this spoiler.
Spoiler
Ulfric was an agent/asset to the Thalmor (albeit unwillingly) until the incident and his request of being allowed to worship Talos openly allowed the Thalmor to come into Skyrim.

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Jack
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:15 pm

I personally loathe Ulfric. The moment he used the Voice to try and win political power for himself, he violated The Way that he was required to devote himself to as an aspiring Greybeard. A power that is only to be used (unless Dragonborn) to glorify the gods, and NEVER to be used for personal power, or the glory of man. (The Dragonborn is allowed to use it in service to Akatosh's design.)

He used the Voice to violently seize power for himself, rather than trying to negotiate, or call for a Moot to change the High King. This makes him no better than a normal dragon, wielding their Thu'um for personal power and conquest.

Even if I didn't side with the Empire, I'd stand against Ulfric.
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Pawel Platek
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:09 pm

After doing the Stormcloak quest line, I feel that Ulfric is the reincarnation of Tiber Septim himself.

I mean, nothing he does is really any different from Tiber Septim. The mortal man who became Talos by COMMITTING GENOCIDE.
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:39 pm

Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, serving Akatosh's design. He's allowed to do things with the Voice that others are not.

There's a reason that the Greybeards don't rule Skyrim with an iron fist.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:54 am

I personally loathe Ulfric. The moment he used the Voice to try and win political power for himself, he violated The Way that he was required to devote himself to as an aspiring Greybeard. A power that is only to be used (unless Dragonborn) to glorify the gods, and NEVER to be used for personal power, or the glory of man. (The Dragonborn is allowed to use it in service to Akatosh's design.)

He used the Voice to violently seize power for himself, rather than trying to negotiate, or call for a Moot to change the High King. This makes him no better than a normal dragon, wielding their Thu'um for personal power and conquest.

Even if I didn't side with the Empire, I'd stand against Ulfric.


The part the gets to me is the second you enter solitude everyone says that the high king would have sided with Ulfric, so the kill was out of nothing more then lust for power. To be honest i am a little mad that i am stuck on ulfrics side in the war, i want to join the join the legion but i have already helped with a few quests.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:28 pm

so.. it's not really ulfric's fault, I take it?
not entirely, at least. because people were making it sound like ulfric made the markharth incident happen and that the ban on talos got even tighter because of him.


True, it wasnt entirely his fault. But what really tarnishes ulfric's name is the fact that he ordered the murder of tons of innocent women and children that belonged to the forsworn. And the Forsworn are actually the real natives of the reach and ulfric ran them out of there by killing innocents. So his whole "skyrim belongs to the nords" is a completely moot statement when he himself runs natives off their land.
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Nathan Hunter
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:03 am

The part the gets to me is the second you enter solitude everyone says that the high king would have sided with Ulfric, so the kill was out of nothing more then lust for power. To be honest i am a little mad that i am stuck on ulfrics side in the war, i want to join the join the legion but i have already helped with a few quests.


That is true too. the old high kings wife even says that ulfric came in and challenged the high king to a duel knowing if the high king didnt accept the duel then ulfric would be able to get all the jarls make the high king step down for not accepting the duel. The high king didnt want to duel ulfric but he had to either duel or lose his kingship. Just goes to show, it all boils down to just ulfric wanting to be high king.

Then not to mention ulfric uses the voice training he learns from the greybeards going against all their laws and training by using it in what is supposed to be a fair and honorable duel.
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Micah Judaeah
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:04 am

Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, serving Akatosh's design. He's allowed to do things with the Voice that others are not.

There's a reason that the Greybeards don't rule Skyrim with an iron fist.


If Ulfric was that great with the voice, and he wanted to do that, don't you think he would?

He probably only knows "Fus." He didn't kill anyone with a shout. He merely knocked him down with it and then stabbed him in the heart.
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Lily Evans
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:06 pm

Yeah, Ulfric's motives are less than pure, and almost everyone but the Stormcloaks seem to realize it
(light mq spoilers: Including the Thalmor who are kind of just using him and his rebellion to weaken the world of men in general).
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Your Mum
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:28 pm

If Ulfric was that great with the voice, and he wanted to do that, don't you think he would?

He probably only knows "Fus." He didn't kill anyone with a shout. He merely knocked him down with it and then stabbed him in the heart.


Yes which goes against all the greybeards teach (especially when ulfric was training to become a greybeard). Also it was supposed to be an honorable duel, i hardly think using a voice power that the other combatant doesnt have so he can stab him in the heart is honorable.
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Adrian Morales
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:09 am

True, it wasnt entirely his fault. But what really tarnishes ulfric's name is the fact that he ordered the murder of tons of innocent women and children that belonged to the forsworn. And the Forsworn are actually the real natives of the reach and ulfric ran them out of there by killing innocents. So his whole "skyrim belongs to the nords" is a completely moot statement when he himself runs natives off their land.


Indeed.
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Quick draw II
 
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Post » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:21 pm

If Ulfric was that great with the voice, and he wanted to do that, don't you think he would?

He probably only knows "Fus." He didn't kill anyone with a shout. He merely knocked him down with it and then stabbed him in the heart.


Basically, challenged the High King to a fair fight, and then he hit the High King with an Air Tazer, and then stabbed him in the heart while he was helpless and twitching?

How does this make Ulfric any better now?
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:25 am

I have a question to the Ulfy "haters:"

Have you guys DONE the Stormcloak portion of the Civil War quest line? You learn so much more subtle details about the actual man, and not his legend, that would reflect that he's really a great guy. He's not a racist, he's not power hungry; Hell, a lot of the time, he doesn't even feel like continuing the war, but Galmar talks him into it. Everything he does, he does for the right reasons; however, he doesn't know the whole story, and doesn't seem to take into account the bigger picture. He doesn't hate the Empire, or non-Nords. He hates what the empire has become, and can't trust anyone who isn't a "true nord" because of all the spies around him.
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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