I've noticed the war between people about each side "Empire svcks cuz they banned Talos" or "Ulfric is a madman" sure but I am at a stalemate as i've played both sides and extremely similiar i just don't know which side I want a leader as. I keep thinking if Ulfric BECOMES high king then Skyrim is [censored] in the ass for ANYONE who isn't a Nord. He just wants power in the end, or get a weakened empire that will fall soon, thalmor will be pushed back, Skyrim turns to Elisif and BAM independent Skyrim. So either side you choose will always be the same it seems to me. I just don't want Ulfric as a leader.

Exactly. The Thalmor are clever bastards and have basically been forging Tamriel's history in their favor since before The Great War even began...No doubt they are keeping tabs on the Empire's military strength and have many Thalmor spies within the Empire's ranks. The Thalmor have been keeping the Empire in their place for the past 26 and no doubt they have a plan if the Empire is foolish enough to rise against them. The Empire is merely a shell of it's former self..nothing but a band of boot-lickers and servants of the Thalmor.

The Dragon doesn't have a soul either because it's missing a head and is therefore dead. Also, bears are quite intelligent.

Indeed, friend...It's nice to have a debate with someone who's well versed in TES lore and can make valid points. I'll be here tomorrow. Goodnight.

Where are these central supplies of food and lumber? Skyrim is a big country, with a very rugged terrain and inhospitable climate. The Dominion is going to have a rough time if they invade.

Also I don't see a lot of supply coming in to Skyrim from Cyrodiil. People only mention imperial gold. The supply of raw materials and manpower is all going the other way. Skyrim appears able to feed itself.


Tell that to Titus Mede. He is only in it for himself and his city, as he has proved time and again. He would have let Hammerfell go to the Dominion, too, if his general hadn't disobeyed orders and left some legions behind.

The so-called spirit of the empire is gone. Tiber Septim's empire doesn't exist anymore. What has replaced it is weak, self-absorbed and pulling Skyrim down with it. The Nords have to cut anchor now or they won't have a chance.

Rome was no more "the light of mankind" than Cyrodiil is. What BS. The Enlightenment historians, who thought everything classical was grand, started that term the Dark Ages.

Oh please. I'm a High Elf. The closest thing to suspision I received from the StormCloaks was "why would a Elf want to help us?", I simply said "I want a chance to kill Imperials" and then they were like "well I can't blame you for that",
after that they treated me like a hero.


Talk about racial arrogance. The imperials think they have a right to control everyone's lives. And yet people call Ulfric a racist.. Pffftt.

Swallow your Dunmer pride and join the Stormcloaks.

From Oblivion:
"The Divines? Psh. They don't do ANYTHING. Daedra, they DO things."

People more concerned about their rights to worship superstition, whether there really were magical beings at some point in Tamriel who represented the incarnation of these "divines" is really pretty sad. A sensible person is concerned with survival, with the health of society, availability of essential resources, education, the ability to defend its borders and its principles.

If a society cannot see enough to separate these necessary concerns from some nitpicking religious dogma, they really have no hope to succeed.

You are still free to worship Talos in your MINDS little fools, I want to say! I bite my tongue.

You're a fool...I'm already on the side of the Stormcloaks and if you couldn't tell from my previous comments, I harbor no love for those Imperial cowards. We're fighting for the same side, friend...But as a Dunmer, I must keep one eye on Ulfric's hatred for my people and the other on the Empire/Thalmor...

Agree. The Thalmor are parasyting the Empire, and making it it's own, maybe even actively (I don't know exactly how much presence they've in Cyrodiil).

Best solution if you ask me, is to emulate Tiber Septim, go fetch a few ships and a few brave men, and destroy Alinor And maybe even more cities of their beloved Summerset Isles.

I still haven't sided with anybody. I'll have to play the game some more before I can give my opinion, IMO.

The Thalmor have master necromancers resurrecting dragons. I'd like to see how well these nord bears defend themselves against the full force of that invasion, raining hellfire from the skies on their alleged ability to feed themselves. Skyrim is DEFENSELESS.


Titus Mede is just a man. Men are easily replaced. An Empire, not so easily.


You sound like a Thalmor propagandist! The spirit of the Empire is gone because you say so. No offense, but the bad decisions of a few incumbents hardly negates the progress of centuries, nor does it diminish the potential, and the NEED for the next to make better ones. What one man can do, another can do. True, another might screw it up. That is when you should be yelling "next," not "let it burn!"

But the emotional war cries of rugged self determinism always seem more palatable in the short term. Until you realize you are only weaker for it. You have to ask yourself, what principles are truly worth defending? A philosophy based on unity, cooperation, and righteous law, or one based solely on the short term rallying pride of some fad of the moment racial faction.

That's why they call it a quick fix. Because it never lasts long. When the dragon smoke settles (and Ulfric is in on that if you hadn't noticed), people will realize they've been duped. Too late.

I should have already sided with someone right now, but i can't decide....



But to be honest, the only thing that is stopping me to side with the Stormcloaks is the racism and that Ulfric is being consumed by power, he wants power, and will want even more as time pass...

Basically the way i see it is, do we lay down and lick the thalmors buttholes for them? or do we at least try to bring them down?

and i find it hard to judge ulrich for his racism when ill frenzy entire villages just because im drunk...

Yeap, thats why im slaughtering all stormcloaks on sight. I mean, enter windhelm and you can see you're already surrounded by moronic Nords. Racist nords prowling the streets. Not to mention those in the "palace" :spotted owl:

Especially that galmar stone fist idiot.

I don't think with Elisif as the head that Skyrim will be anything but a puppet for the empire. It was the same under Torygg. If you observe her as she makes decisions, notice that she is VERY dependent on advisers telling her what to do. She is constantly making decisions, and then going back on them when her advisers tell her that it is a stupid idea. It's not that Elisif is dumb or unable, but like Torygg she is young and inexperienced. She relies too much on people telling her what to do, people who may or may not have Skyrim's best interests at heart. I can guarantee you that with an Empire victory, she will be taking THEIR orders. No matter who wins, Elisif could never truly govern independently. Ulfric's claim that Torygg was a puppet of the empire was not baseless. He was. That doesn't mean he deserved to die for it, of course.

Personally, I think that Ulfric as high king is the best thing for Skyrim. He has not shown at all that he would remove or make life a living hell for non-Nords, at least no more than the empire itself already does. He's a strong leader and knows when to seek the advice for others and when to stand up for his people. That being said, he is a jerkass who desires power above all. The thing is, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, or the doom of Skyrim. What makes a Stormcloak victory so interesting is that Ulfric's rule could really go either way.



I'll help you out. The Empire is just as racist as Ulfric, if not more. Ulfric himself does not express any racism at all throughout the game, despite what people say. If you've played Oblivion, you know how horribly the Empire treated the beastfolk. And if you've played Morrowind, you know that with the support of the empire, the Dunmer enslaved the beastfolk. All of the holds do not allow Khajiits to enter, even if they are Imperial-controlled. No matter which side you join, you are on the side of racists.

For your second point, you are right. He does desire power. However, I would argue that that in itself is not evil, and is not a bad thing. As long as he is capable of wielding that power, who cares if he wanted it? Ulfric has the potential to be a great leader for Skyrim. Whether or not he meets that potential is yet to be seen. But as someone who has played both sides of the civil war questline, I will say that I was much more confident in the future of the world at the end of the Stormcloak questline. The Thalmor are going down, with or without the Empire.

Perhaps then, we should judge him for being in league with the Thalmor necromancers resurrecting evil dragons. Oh, but he's a Nord! A good ol' boy! Hail the murderer in chief!

Is that sarcasm? Or do you need to read the Thalmor Dossier again? I thought that we had been over this enough times.

First Point : I've played Oblivion, and you are kinda right, friend. Althought i don't played Morrowind so i didn't knew about that enslavement... Thanks for pointing it at time. Also the Imperials think they are the Divines blessing to Tamriel, and they have the right to rule all Tamriel... That's not right..

Second Point : Never thought like that, Thanks ALOT for pointing it out, even if Ulfric wants power, if he has the potential to be a leader and not an Empire puppet or a Thalmor puppet, then there's no need to argue about that he wanted power, since even if he wanted it, he is being a great leader.. I didn't played any of the sides questline, but i'll say that i'm much more confident with the Stormcloaks right now.

I think the Thalmor would beat the Stormcloaks because they could all spam Ice Spikes slowing down the warriors and killing them in a couple of hits Hehe.

Good to know that responsible, educated citizens will turn their backs on progress, on what was at its core the true spirit of Talos, an empire of unity and justice under righteous law, in spite of mistakes made by some of it's representatives which is always going to happen no matter who is in power, as soon as things get difficult.

Let's support this racist murdering warlord in league with a Dominion poised to crush the life out of a defenseless, naive populace. Why? I dunno, just to see what happens.

The followers of principles vs. the followers of knee-jerk reactionism. Long-term solidarity vs. short-term emotional fervor.

This is how Hitler rose to power. Because people want presentation over substance. So, a charismatic sociopath steps up and rallies people, and suddenly they abandon centuries of hard fought civil progress to side with a totalitarian reich.

It is an age old human WEAKNESS. It is EASIER to conceive of a radical "rebuilding from the ashes" in the short term than it is to think constructively in the long term, of how to repair the damage to what will always be a better option.

An empire of unity and justice under righteous law. A representative republic we must continually challenge ourselves to amend to keep the checks in balance so that the mistakes of the few don't see the fickle populace throwing up their arms ready to "watch it burn."

May the future forget you were our countrymen.

I played stormcloak first then went back to play imperial but found I just couldnt stand to be on Tullius side. And besides the fact that Tullius is a grade A bastard -

The empire allows Thalmor to run around in skyrim doing whatever they want. They kidnap citizens and the empire hides the fact. They tell the people of skyrim how to live their lives. The idea that the empire is biding its time rebuilding does not stand up to these obvious facts. You cannot rebuild faster than your enemy when you let him run your country. It just doesnt work like that. The status quo just makes Thalmor stronger and the empire and skyrim both weaker. Support for the empire is a losing game for certain. Going against the empire might not win, but its at least a chance.

I may be a lowly racist Stormcloak, but dangit, at least I didn't pull a Godwin. Remember guys, EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS LIKE HITLER.

It is history. There are parallels. The truth doesn't bend to cliche.

This is not true. Ulfriic at most had contact briefly with the Thalmor - and by their own words he is no longer talking to them at all. But Tullius talks to the Thalmor all the time. They give him his marching orders.