The Empire is on the verge of collapse. There is no "long term" for them, no matter who wins the Civil War in Skyrim.

Of course not! We would impeach the present leadership for treason and hold a new election! But we aren't talking about America. America has nuclear weapons and Star Wars defense and biotechnology that can liquify an entire genetic RACE of people.

Skyrim's Empire has the same tools the Romans had to work with. Steel and diplomacy.

The Nords won't be teaching the Empire how to fight. The Empire DOES fight. They're the reason you aren't all Thalmor lapdogs already! Now the instant gratification crowd wants to throw brute force at the problem. I get that. You will roast in Dragon fire. The Empire gets that.

Sometimes what you want isn't always what's best for you.


We are more powerful together. If the Nords had fought under the banner of the Empire the WGC wouldn't have been needed. Abandoning Hammerfell was a stupid mistake, granted. We should be rallying for replacement of leadership, not of our entire social order, and certainly not to replace it with the "order" of a power drunk overly ambitious tribal chief with no practical means to defend "his" people against a threat that Skyrim failed to quell WITH the support of the Empire they should instead be working to support, and REFORM.

The nords DID fight under the banner of the empire. A large portion of their army is nords.

Why are you still bandying words with someone who is committing strawman and ad hominem fallacies left and right, and actually managed to successfuly violate Godwin's Law?

EDIT: Ahem, committing* not invoking.

The Nords did fight. Ulfric Stormcloak, in fact, fought for the empire, along with Legate Rikke, Galmar, and other soldiers. That is why he is angry and rebelling - so many of his countrymen gave their lives for the empire, Ulfric himself was tortured by the Thalmor, and all for what? They told the Nords that their way of life was not illegal. The Empire only cares about Skyrim for the mass amount of Nord bodies it can use as soldiers. The people of Skyrim get very little in return. The Empire needs Skyrim more than Skyrim needs the Empire. I don't know whether Ulfric's war is the best solution to that, but it makes perfect sense. Nords fought hard during the great war, you see broken veterans from it all over Skyrim if you talk to them, including many of the beggars. Skyrim sacrificed a ton fighting the Thalmor and got nothing to show for it but imprisonment if they dared to worship Talos. Can you blame them for not liking the Empire?



Yarr I thought they left. Maybe they read what I told them to read!

Seems a lot of you dont know what you're talking about and arent well versed in the lore...Disappointing.

But at what cost? This is a classical strategic failure. Fighting for territory at the expense of resources. The Thalmor know this, which is why they love hot-headed tribal warlords like Ulfric.

Ready to throw in divided for the sake of stupid pride. Picking you off, one by one. Oh you say you won the battle. But how many fewer citizens would have perished were you to have the integrity to stand together?

Throw out the weak leaders if you must, in fact, I would argue that is your RESPONSIBILITY as patriotic citizens.

But this throwing of your hands in the air, abandoning the unity that is your greatest strength? The Thalmor simply laugh.

"See, they have learned nothing from history."

The thing about the Great War is that it came completely out of the blue. It was a surprise attack that only the Blades had anticipated.
The Thalmor started a quick and relentless campaign throughout Tamriel, reaching the very heart of the Empire. The Empire barely had time
to send for more troops from the remaining Imperial provinces. The Thalmor sacked the Imperial City and held it for a year before the Imperials
could muster enough men and support for a desperate counterattack. The counterattack, or the Battle of the Red Ring as it came to be known,
completely wiped out the Thalmor presence in the Empire. The Thalmor was devastated, but so was the Imperials - the Thalmor then turned
towards Hammerfell, but was sorely weakened by the Great War, and thus the Redguards were able to repel them, though not without dire losses.

It's hard to repel an invasion since you're fighting in your own land. The people of this land is being harassed and killed, leaving you an even
slimer chance to succesfully fight back.

But let's look at it like this. What if the Empire had struck first? What if the Empire had recognized the looming threat of the Aldmeri Dominion, and
initalized a surprise attack as the Thalmor really did?
Taking the fight to them and regaining the lost Imperial provinces of Elsweyr and Valenwood. This would cripple the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion
and rid the world of these scum.

The Empire (with a unified Skyrim that is) and the Thalmor would be around the same strength I'd reckon. Though the White-Gold Concordat might suggest
that the Thalmor have the upper hand, and all those Thalmor agents proclaiming superiority over man and the Empire, that is simply not true.

While the Thalmor might have had a slight advantage after the Battle of the Red Ring due to the exceedingly war-tired Imperials, they have a real problem in the
future (right around when the game takes place). Remember, why did the Aldmeri Dominion not just sack the Imperial City once more after the Imperials had
regained it? Because they were also afraid that the Empire might have been to strong. The Emperor, in response to his people who begged for the war to end,
signed the treaty, as he saw no other choice but to postpone the war.

Don't forget that the Thalmor actually sees this Stormcloak rebellion as a blessing - they are not ready for a war to break out just yet, they would either
have to grow stronger, or the Empire would have to continue its steep decline in support before they would consider yet another attempt at an attack. Wanting
the Stormcloak Rebellion and civil war to continue, is a definite sign of weakness from the Thalmor.

Don't believe the endless stream of Thalmor lies! They are not certain victors AT ALL! These people kill and murder dissidents even within their own homeland -
these "purges" also suggest a strong resistance from within the Aldmeri Dominion.

The Emperor, and every other Imperial still believes in Tiber Septim/Talos - but sees the
ban as a necessary war-tactic to regain strength to be ready to go to war with the totalitarian Aldmeri Dominion. The Empire still upholds its beliefs and doctrines!
The Empire is still worth fighting for! When the second Great War breaks out - the Empire will be ready, and with the support of the fierce and proud Nords of
Skyrim the Empire WILL. BE. VICTORIOUS! Unite against the common foe, unite against slavery and evil, unite against the Thalmor and make Talos proud!
TALOS GUIDE US ALL!

TL;DR version:
The Thalmor aren't as strong as we are made to believe by them. If Skyrim would unite with the Empire then the Empire would
have the upper hand in another war.

i bet you they bounce back by the next game.

To be fair, there's a lot of damn lore! I read through everything they had on the UESP wiki over the summer, and I'm not even sure I was capable of remembering half of it.

Yeah because starting a civil war makes more sense :facepalm:

Ok, your pretend knowledge is cute. It's impossible to "violate Godwin's Law". It's not a legal law, but rather a predictive one. Seriously, try to understand the terms you use before posting them on an internet forum because chances are that somebody will know more than you.

Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

Think about it for two seconds, you shouldn't need any more but nobody is counting.

Sure it does, if you are charismatic, want to be high king, and have a lot of countrymen who are ticked off at your empire overlords. Makes loads of sense!

So Ulfric, try not to be a tyrant and stuff, okay?

I'll take that bet. Bethesda isn't in the habit of canonizing any major divergent choices that the player makes in the Elder Scrolls series, so my prediction is that the Empire will eventually fall no matter who wins the civil war. Whether it happens due to slow decline or a Stomcloak axe will be lost to history.

This is a very real problem. Empires have a tendency to become fat, lazy, and na?ve in times of peace. Then, when signs of struggle present themselves, they are quick to overlook them or worse, jump on the vocal bandwagon of how “inconvenient” all this talk of civil responsibility is, and we should all just worry about ourselves (read "Tea Party.")

Until you are routed, as you will be under Ulfric, and any regime change which favors short term bloody losses over ultimately meaningless territory instead of unity in the face of a common enemy.

The biggest threat to righteous civilization, is the prevailing human stupidity.

Indeed..A lot of lore. Perhaps I havent been entirely fair to everyone...I've been studying TES lore since I was young.

So you've been siding with the Thalmor this whole time, eh?

They'll have no choice but too speak of it.

They can't just say "oh we don't know what's going on with the Empire these days"

The difference is I still love my poor lost sheep, and my warrior bulls alike. I point out their weakness in hopes they will see reason, and join the fight with any chance of winning.

The Thalmor see as I do, that your territorial battles amount to little more than suicide by numbers. Yet where they see this as proof of their eugenic superiority, I weep for the failure of education, and struggle on to prove them wrong, with what I have to work with.

Funny...you speak of "unity" but seem to forget that the Empire severed ties with perhaps their greatest ally -- The Redguards. You also fail to see that the other provinces have strayed away from the Empire as well...Thanks to the incompetence of Titus Mede II. The Empire is to blame for the fall of the Alliance. As of right now, they are in no position to try and mend relations with the other provinces, let alone strike the Thalmor.

This is overlooked a lot, the Thalmor put way too much effort into their propaganda to be so confident in victory.

I am almost positive that a Stormcloak victory will be canon. You can really tell with the end of each civil war questline. The Empire one just falls... flat. "Yep, Ulfric is dead... so... maybe Elisif might be high queen... yeah... Empire's just gonna keep truckin' I guess..." Ulfric's victory just brings out so many possibilities for how the story can go... for good or for bad. That is overall why I love the Stormcloak side. You finish the questline really anticipating what will happen next. I would be really disappointed if they had the Empire win. It would just be dull.

Ulfric wants to require his face painted on your sweet rolls as a symbol of national pride. The empire wants to take your sweet rolls away to support their damaged economy. The Aldmeri want to open bake shops in all your cities that are better than the ones there now. They want to give you their sweet rolls...

You should support the Dominion.

If the Aldmeri have the strongest military and the wisest leadership shouldn't they rule all of Tamriel? It's how the empire got started and justified its existence for so long. The loss of a few civil rights for uncivilized and barely cultured monkeys is a small thing next to real progress that could be instigated by the races of Mer for the benifit of all...

Yeah. Except they want to kill you. Assuming you are not a high elf of course. I wonder how you would taste baked into a sweet roll?