Let's be honest. : V - Skyrim

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:47 am

How tangible of a thing are blessings according to the lore? I mean, realistically, since the people in the game don't have access to their "stats", how do they truly know they've been blessed?

I always thought part of the point of Aedra was that you needed more faith to believe in them, whereas the Daedra are more tangible and offer more tangible benefits to followers (which kinda of made a God/Devil anology to me -- you can live a good life and believe in God and have faith in Heaven, or you can do what's good for you in this life by "following the Devil").

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:30 am

Just to clear up though, the emperor is NOT a coward.

He surrendered to the altmer who was threatening to kill him, so that he could negociate , thereby minimizing the losses.

What would have happenned if that altmer actually killed the emperor? I'll tell you: complete victory for the aldmeri dominion. That doesn't mean just losing a war, that means that the altmers become the new rulers of the emire, and can do EVERYTHING they want.

A man in a fight chooses between life and death, sure, but an emperor being threatened to death has to think a bit further than simple honor

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:14 am

Just to clear up though, the emperor is NOT a coward.

He surrendered to the altmer who was threatening to kill him, so that he could negociate , thereby minimizing the losses.

What would have happenned if that altmer actually killed the emperor? I'll tell you: complete victory for the aldmeri dominion. That doesn't mean just losing a war, that means that the altmers become the new rulers of the emire, and can do EVERYTHING they want.

A man in a fight chooses between life and death, sure, but an emperor being threatened to death has to think a bit further than simple honor

Oh really now?

Spoiler

I never noticed after I murdered the Emperor.

Besides, the Thalmor can already do whatever they want. Legally at that.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:11 am

Just to clear up though, the emperor is NOT a coward.

He surrendered to the altmer who was threatening to kill him, so that he could negociate , thereby minimizing the losses.

What would have happenned if that altmer actually killed the emperor? I'll tell you: complete victory for the aldmeri dominion. That doesn't mean just losing a war, that means that the altmers become the new rulers of the emire, and can do EVERYTHING they want.

A man in a fight chooses between life and death, sure, but an emperor being threatened to death has to think a bit further than simple honor

His people are already dying by the whim of the Thalmor. The Thalmor sit back and enjoy life in their bases while they throw Imperial troops to conquest the rest of the world for them. There can be no victory at all for the Imperials if they keep allowing this, and what would the Thalmor do once they've conquered the whole entirety of Tamriel and thousands of Imperials lay dead, scattered around the world, the soldiers exhausted in both numbers and spirits with nothing to protect the young.

That's when the Thalmor no longer have need to negotiate with the Empire. Those weren't really negotiations, the Emperor sold his people into slavery. If it had been negotiations it would have been on terms he could agree with.

The only hope the Empire has now is if the rest of Tamriel can defeat all of their combat ready advlts and the Thalmor allowing their manual laborers and children to re-build the Empire in case the rest of Tamriel allows them to have it. Or if there are some kind individuals amongst the Thalmor who are willing to rebel against their own kin for the good of the Empire.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:37 am

How tangible of a thing are blessings according to the lore? I mean, realistically, since the people in the game don't have access to their "stats", how do they truly know they've been blessed?

I always thought part of the point of Aedra was that you needed more faith to believe in them, whereas the Daedra are more tangible and offer more tangible benefits to followers (which kinda of made a God/Devil anology to me -- you can live a good life and believe in God and have faith in Heaven, or you can do what's good for you in this life by "following the Devil").

The difference between the Aedra and Daedra is that the Daedra did not contribute to the creation of the Mundus.
The Aedra sacrificed much of themselves at creation, some wholly dissolved into the project and became the Earthbones, the laws of nature.
The strongest Aedra, Akatosh chief among them, remain but are forever bound to creation.

The Magna-Ge are those that participated in creation at first, but retreated and left when the scope of the project became clear.
Unlike the Daedra who like to stay close and meddle, they have withdrawn to Aetherius.
The hole that Magnus the architect tore into the veil when he departed is the sun.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:29 pm

I only did it on my Nord for the achievements.

I liked the whole "free Skyrim" cause, but Ulfric is a jerk. You can tell he really does love Skyrim though.

Same here.

Get a better leader Stormcloaks, and we can talk in a civilised fashion about Independance (maybe). Till then Empire all the way.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:51 am

They HAD to surrender to the Thalmor so that they could keep the Whte Gold Tower.

You Stormcloaks fail to realize that the Tower supposedly holds the power necessary to keep Mundus [universe] from dissolving.
They could either surrender and make peace no matter what the terms, or keep on fighting and lose, giving the Thalmor the power necessary to unmake the world.

Just imagine, all of Tamriel would submit to the Thalmor out of fear. Including Skyrim, obviously. If it weren't for the Empire, we'd all be dead.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:33 am

Spoiler

I never noticed after I murdered the Emperor.

Spoiler

Wasn't that an impostor actually? (not that sure though, only heard about that part

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:18 am

They HAD to surrender to the Thalmor so that they could keep the Whte Gold Tower.

You Stormcloaks fail to realize that the Tower supposedly holds the power necessary to keep Mundus [universe] from dissolving.
They could either surrender and make peace no matter what the terms, or keep on fighting and lose, giving the Thalmor the power necessary to unmake the world.

Just imagine, all of Tamriel would submit to the Thalmor out of fear. Including Skyrim, obviously. If it weren't for the Empire, we'd all be dead.

I'd rather be dead than a slave.

Besides, people seem to forget, the goal of the Thalmor is to destroy the world. Yup, all of the world, gone. So we have two choices. We fight the Thalmor, or we all die. That seems like the easiest choice in the world to me.

EDIT: About my previous spoiler tagged post:

Spoiler

No, I murdered the real Emperor.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:23 pm

Ulfric may be a bad egg. But his cause is good.

Once we take over Skyrim, I'll challenge him to a duel just as he did with Torygg. And I'll win.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:47 pm

The chat between tullius and ulfric at the end of the stormcloak campaign really shows you the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aLig_gMtds Skip to 13:00

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:11 am

The chat between tullius and ulfric at the end of the stormcloak campaign really shows you the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aLig_gMtds Skip to 13:00

Those poor, misguided Imperials. The video just shows that they honestly believe that they're doing the right thing.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:41 am

Both factions are grey morally, which is why they are both very realistic to me. I personally can't respect an empire that would sign a treaty that basically allows the enemy to abduct its own citizens and murder them. I guess I would have kept fighting until utter defeat in that case. I would fight for what I believe in to the bitter end if need be under such ridiculous terms. I feel sort of dirty when trying to play a legion character. The stormcloaks may not have all the 'best' intentions, but at least they are fighting for to keep the Thalmor from slaughtering people. The empire just turns a blind eye.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:37 pm

Besides, people seem to forget, the goal of the Thalmor is to destroy the world. Yup, all of the world, gone. So we have two choices. We fight the Thalmor, or we all die. That seems like the easiest choice in the world to me.

Exactly. Like I said, the White Gold Tower holds the means to destroy the world. Read the Great War.
The Empire was fighting a losing battle. Why take chances and keep fighting at the risk of dooming the universe when you can just surrender and ensure the continuity of life till you can get back up on your feet?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:16 am

I wonder if a free skyrim would be that bad. i support the empire all the way because they are only reason that the Thalmor are not invading at the moment.
BUT there is Hammerfell. This province said no to the treat and fought the Thalmor. They fought and the Thalmor preaty much said screw it, we svck to the Redguards' awsomeness.

And since both Hammerfell and Skyrim are warrior nations, the stormcloaks could probally hold back the Thalmor.

I still support the Empire because Ulfric is a racist and Tullius(though he is arrogant of the Nord ways) seems more reasonable. Sure he is an Imperial but I think deep down. he wants to gut every Thalmor he sees.
I do :flamethrower:

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:33 am

Initially I follow the stormcloaks, since the imperial guy at Helgen says 'follow me prisoner' lol. I would continue to follow the stormcloaks except they are lead by a racist who poorly runs his own town.

I like the front the stormcloaks show, but it's just that, a front. Their motive is power and racial superiority.

So even though the empire failed to show backbone originally, they have a plan and it's for the greater good.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:02 am

And yet it is legal for Thalmor Justiciars to kill citizens of the Empire for Talos worship. Everything about the current Empire fills me with disgust. The Stormcloaks aren't perfect, not by a long shot, but they have a cause worth fighting for and they haven't turned their backs on their own people.

The Empire never enforced that ban on Talos until Ulfric and the Stormcloaks started their rebellion. That's when the Thalmor sent in their Justicars to police Skyrim. You can blame Ulfric for that.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:58 am

the stormcloaks just want to worship talos without being called criminals

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:22 pm

At first I was all like, " Down with the Empire man!"

But then I was all like, " Empire rules! Stormcloaks drool!"

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:58 pm

Definitely going with the Empire on my next playthrough.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:36 am

You conveniently left out the part (In the very same dossier I might add) about the Thalmor not wanting Ulfric to win the war, in fact the Thalmor only want the war to go on, either side winning would hurt them in the end.

If the Empire wins, they'd be stronger, but still nowhere near ready to fight the Thalmor again.

If the Stormcloaks win, they would most likely attack the Thalmor as soon as possible, regardless of their chances, this would not help the Thalmor. Nords are without question great warriors and they have been shown to have a passion and drive that makes them welcome death (At the promise of Sovngarde) in battle. A warrior who does not fear death is someone you don't want to fight, an army of them is even worse. In addition, the Redguards, widely regarded as the best warriors in Tamriel are pretty pissed at the EMpire for throwing them to the dogs because they wouldn't just bow down and surrender to a group of genocidal fanatics. If a unified but free Skyrim decided to attack the Thalmor, I suspect the Redguards would do the same.

Now, two great warrior cultures are still facing pretty terrible odds sure, but the Thalmor would be greatly weakened by one, possibly two nations both with strong warrior cultures relentlessly attacking them.
If the Empire has a lick of sense, they will use this and resume fighting the Thalmor themselves. Even with great numbers, the Thalmor can not fight a war on three fronts effectively. Not to mention the resentment within the dominion itself from the families of everyone who was "purged" (ie murdered) by the Thalmor, which would likely spark resistance and sabotage withing the dominions territories.

Disregarding all of that, here's how I see it. The Empire let the Thalmor walk all over them, ban the worship of the god of man and legally murder anyone who refuses to comply. The Emperor is a coward, the Empire is a broken husk of it's former self and by allowing a group of religious fanatics to murder it's people it has betrayed everyone within it. That is not an empire I'm willing to support.

If anything, the rebellion in Skyrim should serve as a wake up call to the Empire, who has betrayed everything it stands for.

Aye.

Death to the Empire!

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:58 am

Anybody who joins the Imperial legion because of future benefits and in depth knowledge of how things will play out in the future is terrible at roleplaying.

Do you really think your character knows what the thalmor and the imperial legion have planned? If I'm playing my Nord Character I look at the world from her view, she has no idea what the future will bring and what political leaders are scheming, so naturally she will join with what she thinks is right, that's why I always pick Stormcloak.

The Imperial legion is the better choice, but from a rp perspective the right decision is obvious because I know what my character would have choose. I think instead of people picking a side based on what you as the player know you should instead pick a side based on what your character would do.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:14 am

wasn′t the markarth incident the one where the empire made a deal with ulfrich to massacre a bunch of people and than the empire [censored] him over on their end of the deal?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:59 am

Storm cloaks take arrows to the knees.

Cheers

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:03 am

Stormcloak or Empire, give me attitude, you be dead.