Obviously if your character is a Nord, he most likely wouldn't question Ulfric's motives.

Now if your character is an Argonian or Dunmer, it's almost impossible not to hate Ulfric after you visit Windhelm. Besides, it's not like you can talk to the Jarls and ask their opinion on Ulfric ,right? Even Laila Law-Giver, alligned with the Stormcloaks, is starting to disbelieve Ulfric.

FOR THE EMPIRE!!! Nothing more satisfying than watching an arrow slide cleanly and smoothly through a Stormcloak's heart, or the cold steel of my blade through his intestine.

Edit: Kicking a Stormcloak [censored] to his knees and beheading him is an equally nice feeling.

See, I can't get behind this claim that "true role-players can't base their decision on long term plannning", because characters in game make basically the same arguments as forumites about standing firm against the Dominion.

Exactly.

Yeah and clearly Scotland fighting for independence from King Longshanks was a dumb move. They should just let England continually oppress them, steal away their wives on their first night because it was a "noble's right", work them to death, steal their resources, etc. Surely that is preferable to an all out war right?

Now the game doesn't show them doing the majority of the stuff I listed, but they do show them putting Nord people in chains and escorting them away, never to be heard again, simply for worshipping Talos.

I don't know about you, but I don't see why the Stormcloaks are foolish for wanting to take charge of their own country.

Seriously, it was only a matter of talking to and questioning people, then looking at the map and thinking logically about what would be the best choice for long term for all my people in Skyrim. Just because I'm roleplaying I've suddenly lost critical thinking? What? My nord happens to be quite smart and quite the strategist. He knows that banning Talos right now is a necessary evil, and that when the Empire takes back over it will be allowed again, as it always has been by the Empire. If the Dominion wins because Skyrim is fragmented and Tamriel is a bunch of warring states, then we'll never see Talos worship again. From the very beginning, or so it says in books, that supporting the empire is also worship to Talos. He will understand, and if he doesn't, then he's not Talos and it doesn't matter.

That's not a good anology. A better one would be Scotland fighting for it's independence from England while the entire area, Scotland included was attempting to be invaded by another large empire. Had that happened, then Scotland and England would both probably be subject to someone else now.

i cant stand the sight of imperials, the worms gave up their very god and for what? to let the thalmor regan strength while picking off imperials? they cant win it is an impossibility at this point (unless talos, by some divine mercy, intervines and saves their asses), their moral is dropng, their people are being hauled off to be killed because they worship talos, they lost all of their best fighters (the blades), and they lost the advantage after taking back their city (whcih was a worthless endever if they will just allow the thalmor to come in and kill them one by one, and, of course, they do)

I have a very good reason for hating the Legion. I was just minding my own business hitting on some High Elf girlies at the Radient Raiment who clearly wanted a piece of this and all of a sudden these Legionaries start insulting my mother and accuse me of being a "stormcloak" and next thing I know I got some Legion dirtbags telling me they gonna send my body in little pieces to Summerset Isle, after they chop off my head, because I was a "pointy-eared bastard". So I joined the Stormcloaks for some payback.

Hammerfell sees it as both a betrayal and a surrender. Half of Skyrim sees it as a surrender. The current emperor will never again command respect after what he did. The Thalmor no longer fear or respect him.

It would be like the USA signing a peace treaty with the Nazis and..
A) no longer being able to worship God and
B) disbanding the Marines, the secret service, and the CIA (the Blades were a lot of things, elite soldiers, spies, and the emperor's honor guard) and
C) surrendering Texas to the Nazis, then Texas saying "[censored] this [censored]" and fighting their own war against the Nazis and kicking them out of Texas and
D) having Nazi embassies all over the states hunting down and murdering christians legally.

In this scenario, its like the West coast wanting to secede from the union to set everything back right.


The old empire was the only thing. This empire is a defeated empire. An empire which cannot defend its populous does not deserve to rule.

If the dragonborn chooses to aid the Stormcloaks, they will kick out both the Empire AND Thalmor, then rebuild Skyrim without Thalmor intervention, just like what is happening in Hammerfell.

Don't forget what the Stormcloaks' longterm goal is, the destruction of the Thalmor. Its not a question if Skyrim would aid the Empire against the Thalmor, it is a question will the Empire aid Skyrim against the Thalmor. The current Emperor is weak. Hammerfell has already lost faith in him. A strong High King of Skyrim will command respect among both Hammerfell and the Empire. Everyone in Tamriel knows the High King will never sign a peace treaty with the Thalmor.


Markarth Incident involved Ulfric's father according to Ulfric. Racism can be found all over Tamriel. Humans in TES lore are actually the least racist of all races. If you get hung up on that then why on earth would you support an empire bowing down before the Thalmor which literally intend to enslave the rest of the lower races just like the Alyaid did?

Stalling measure or not it was a great mistake. Titus II needs to die before the Empire will ever have a chance to recover its lost glory. Tiber Septim would be ashamed.

the thalmor do not want to enslave a damned soul, they want to kill each and every other race (maybe everyone in all of creation), all because apperently creation offends some god that they have never even spoken too or recieved this message from (as far as i am aware)

My Orc Sorcerer has plenty of reasons to fight for the Empire. The Empire tried to make Orsinium a province and even tried to help the Orcs during the second siege of Orsinium.

All Orcs kind of owe a blood debt to the Empire.


All other races(besides Imperials) have huge amounts of reasons to hate the Empire and thats cool. Bethesda will probably just retcon this whole civil war to hell anyway

How do you figure the Stormcloaks will be able to defeat the Thalmor alone? Then entire empire as a whole could only fight them to a standstill, and you're saying a group of rebels are going to, after having fought their own war, turn around and expel another empire, while still having loyals to the Empire lapping at their heels? Hammerfell was able to somewhat expel Thalmor, but they aren't done with the fighting and that's an entire nation without a civil war. Stormcloaks in a fragmented and war-town Skyrim aren't Redgaurds in Hammerfell. If you want to talk about logistics and real world events, how many rebel groups have succeeded in taking their country, and then going on to take over another empire? I'd wager none, none that I can think of. And it's because of simple logistics. To fight the Thalmor in their current state will take a lot of resources they won't have after a war with the Empire. As soon as both are weakened, the Thalmor will have it exactly as they want it. They even mention that Ulric is an asset to them because of this. It wasn't a big mistake, it was perfectly strategically sound. If the Empire had continued to fight a battle they were losing, the Thalmor would have taken them already. If Ulfric spent half his propaganda and energy as a general to steer his Stormcloaks into an alliance with the Empire and bolster their strength the Thalmor would be utterly destroyed right then and there. It's because of the fragment that the Thalmor are getting their way. The enemy of enemy is my friend, and Ulfric is definitely helping the Thalmor, they have documents to show it, if you find them.

If you want a real-world example, imagine if the American Revolution had been taking place during the American Civil War. We'd never have America if that were the case, because we'd be too fragmented and too low on resource to expel Britain, nor would our French allies have had any clue who to help.

True Orcs also follow the Code of Malacath, which states that if a leader is too weak to lead, a new leader must be chosen. The Empire is that leader, the code demands change.

They also helped the Orcs escape to Cyrodiil and Skyrim after Orsinium started to fall too. Orcs wouldn't have any reason to join Stormcloaks, it'd be backwards.

To be honest I find it funny that the dark elves are all treated as 2nd class people Karma is a [censored] when you enslave all the beast races thats the only thing I like about Ulfric manchild and his foolish and racist people for but I hate them for making the beast races who work hard and are always nice to you stay outside the city.

Dark Elves are wannabe Altmer. They wish they were as cool as High Elves.

Wheres a good site that tells you the background?

I haven't decided who I'm going to join b/c I don't realy know whats going on.

You can go talk to Ulfric directly at Windhelm and ask him. Then talk to the Imperial Legion commander in... Solitude I think.

You can probably find a lot of information if you go to the lore section of these forums, ask them what books are good to read for background, and then you can find them all at http://www.imperial-library.info/

Theres no site with a history of this stuff.

I think I have the general idea of whats going on but I'm not sure.

Epilogue: Hammerfell Fights On Alone
Hammerfell, however, refused to accept the White-Gold Concordat, being unwilling to concede defeat and the loss of so much of their territory. Titus II was forced to officially renounce Hammerfell as an Imperial province in order to preserve the hard-won peace treaty. The Redguards, understandably, looked on this as a betrayal. In this, the Thalmor certainly achieved one of their long-term goals by sowing lasting bitterness between Hammerfell and the Empire.
In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated. The Redguards say that this proves that the White-Gold Concordat was unnecessary, and that if Titus II had kept his nerve, the Aldmeri could have been truly defeated by the combined forces of Hammerfell and the rest of the Empire.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War

The Thalmor are weakened, and Skyrim's Hammerfell brosefs are right on their border. They'll be just fine.

The Empire was founded by a great leaker, Tiber Septim, and was defended well by the Septim bloodline. This new emperor is weak and unworthy. May the next TES game usher in a worthy emperor.

Of course their fools, these feces flinging Nord's are but pawns in our game of chess for Tamriel.

/Thalmoragentroleplay

what is that I hear? the voice of reason? sanity? fresh air? truth? Yes[size="5"] Yes

and there IS a website with the history of this stuff. holy [censored] me with a bleeping [censored] pole, it is called UESP.net

the unoffical elder scrolls pages.

The Imperials are just an incompetent...