I would like to propose that the Tsaesci are men. Honest to goodness humans.

Yep, you heard me.

Maybe, at one point, they were snakes (the Potentates being the most obvious example), but I think that the skeletons at Pale Pass and the carvings at Sky Haven Temple aren't exactly as incorrect as I once believed.

There's a line in "http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-children-sky" which compares Thu'um to the "kiai" of the Akaviri swordsmen. Kiai in the real world is just what they call it when martial artists yell out "hi-ya!" or whatever, but that doesn't sound anything like Thu'um to me. Thu'um has power. It's not just a battlecry, it's a primal, magical ability that bends the fabric of reality to your will. So, it's entirely likely that the Akaviri power of Kiai is exactly the same, or at least similar.

Secondly, it seems to me that the only Akaviri swordsmen that Tamriel has really seen were the dragon hunters that were searching for Reman. And, if my theory is correct, these Kiai-using warriros were human.
The Potentates, who came with them, were however entirely snake-like. Could it be that they came from a different caste to the dragon hunters? Some kind of administrators, maybe?

Their names are completely different, for starters. The human Tsaesci have names with (generally) "X" sounds, while the snakes are hyphenated, and have lots of "S" sounds in their names.

Now, I'd like to draw your attention to "http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tsaesci-creation-myth-and-we-ate-it-become-it", which suggests to me that the Tsaesci (at least the Kiai-using caste) have the ability to become those that they eat. Gods included.

And who have the Tsaesci eaten? http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-mysterious-akavir Now, if we assume that Kiai is an ability similar to Thu'um, I would like to also propose that "eating" is an ability similar to the Dragonborn's ability to absorb dragon souls. Ysmir was also a Dragonborn, and eventually people couldn't look upon him without seeing a dragon. But, why? Well, perhaps it's all the dragon souls he ate.

So, I believe that in Akavir, or at least in the kingdom of Tsaesci, "you are what you eat" is taken literally. The Tsaesci of the "Manborn Caste" ate so many men, that eventually they became them. It's also my belief that the Tsaesci aren't vampiric in the Tamrielic sense of the word, but rather this vampirism relates to their ability to absorb the life-force (souls) of those they kill. And, of course, perhaps they can use these souls to live forever (until they're murdered by the Dark Brotherhood).

Thoughts?

I was actually thinking of something similar, though you say it much more eloquently and with much better detail.

Do we have to talk about Akavir again? Do we have to? Ugh. Okay...

In Remanada Chapter II, it explains the transformation of the Tsaesci.

Yeah. That explains... not a lot.

What's this black dart supposed to mean?

I, for one, support the notion.

I mean, I always prefered to think they resemble men more than snakes, and that "snake-men" is only a metaphor.

I had a similar theory but much more extensively complicated, sadly the thread which contained it did not garner much attention.
Nevertheless, I believe in what you say of they literally ate their souls to become them. It makes sense and would explain the contary accounts of tsaesci sightings.
Perhaps the more snake like tsaesci are simply remainders of the 'original' race? those whom ate the dragons instead and only became half of them.

Well if that makes any sense.

Or the Tsaesci are like Khajiit. Several different breeds. There are Khajiit that are barely distinguishable from mer.

Pale Pass in Oblivion makes it quite clear that (at least some of) the Akaviri soldiers were either humans or very similar. Not only the skeletons and the captain's ghost, but the diary too.

Or instead of literal "eating" teir nation "swallowed" the Akaviri nation of man in a political sense, making it a part of their empire

The black dart explains nothing. The point is that the Tsaesci turned into men to guard Reman and later went on to fight for Cuhlecain to help Talos. And since there's no mention of snake-men fighting with Talos, we must assume that they turned into men but retained their vampiric blood.

This explains How Tosh Raka turned into a Dragon,but they just didn't turned into Men,they also turned into dragons.And your theory contradicty itself.If they became what they eat,this means if they eat a Cabbage they become a cabbage.And all the mer were eated and also Dragons.So this means if they runned out of flesh,so they had to eat other creatures of Akavir,turning into one of them.This is strange because all the Tsaseci would have been vanished....

FWIW, I believe Tosh Raka is Ka Po Tun, not Tsaeci.

Also, I think it has been determined that the Akaviri "eating" doesn't mean "consumption of food." Heck, this is stated in the OP, where he proposes that "eating" something is similar to absorbing a dragon's soul. There isn't much soul in a cabbage, is there?

The Kia & Eating stuff: that's pure gold. I'll accept it at face value.

The man-shaped stuff: that's pure yellow paint. Your argument seems to be either, "they have the same superpowers as men, so they're men" or "they devoured a lot of human souls, so by now they should look like humans." Neither of those are terribly convincing to me. If you have a third argument, or if I just vastly misinterpreted what you said, I'd love to hear it.

I actually preferred http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1318459-many-new-ideas/. I'm not sure how much they contradict Jara's (if at all), but I certainly prefer to imagine them as literal vampiric snake-men.

yh. I'd like to see this. The Argonians seem a bit lonely as the only scaly race

Perhaps there are both bipedal Tsaesci, who would be the armor-clad Dragonguard, and more serpentine ones ruling over them. Kind of like the Yuan-ti. Or perhaps the bipeds are simply men or Akaviri men or whatever who have been given the Tsaesci form of vampire. Or whatever it'd be called.

I'm quite surprised that people responded well to that thread and that they responded at all.
Damn, I must remember to check threads I make. Relying on the quoted post warning for your own threads is a bad idea.

Anyway yes, I've pondered on the tsaesci for a long time now and I believe that they must be vampiric soul-thieves for sure.
Snake-men? perhaps not. Perhaps they were originally something in between man and snake, a golden voldemort of sorts.

But once they fed on men, they became even more like them and those lucky enough to feed on dragons became even more serpentine.
The dragon-feeders would have more power by my theory from that thread, so they'd be in leadership positions (potentates, generals etc.).

This would explain both sightings to a degree. Hmmm also.. I gotta wonder about applying my soul-vampire theory to Tosh Raka sometime..

I agree, but I highly doubt all Tscaesci have become men, I also beleive that they are vampiric in a literal sense as well, in that their diet consists entirely of blood.

The Akaviri depicted themselves as men on Alduin's Wall when they were in Tamriel during Reman Cyridiil's reign.

Ysmir = Talos

First, Ysmir Wulfharth was not a dragonborn. He was an avatar of Shor.

Secondly, while Tiber Septim was dragonborn, he never killed any dragons.They were mostly gone (thanks to Reman Cyrodiil and his akaviri dragonguard) aside from Paarthurnax and probably Mirmulnir, along a few others.

When Tiber Septim ascended to mantle Lorkhan along with Wulfharth and Zurin Arctus - he then became Talor or Ysmir.

Was the black dart when the Moragdarktongbrotherhood -guys killed ... or wait, was that a different potentate?

I like the idea of people eating each other's souls. This and that other thread were fun. It's the next best thing if they are (not all) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNQ4e_GD6lw#t=0m31s. Sleestaks. Dracular Gonians. Or whichever..

I think the DB/MG assassinated Reman, not the Potentate.. although maybe the Potentates ended with assassination too? That was what I thought of when I read "black dart". Afterall, the DB does use black darts in Morrowind, and "black dart" reeks of death imagery.

This. but with the criticisms in the second paragraph felt much more weakly.

Tsaesci is "Snake Palace", once the strongest power in Akavir (before the Tiger-Dragon came). The serpent-folk ate all the Men of Akavir a long time ago, but still kind of look like them. They are tall, beautiful (if frightening), covered in golden scales, and immortal. They enslave the goblins of the surrounding isles, who provide labor and fresh blood. The holdings of Tsaesci are widespread. When natives of Tamriel think of the Akaviri they think of the Serpent-Folk, because one ruled the Cyrodilic Empire for four hundred years in the previous era. He was Potentate Versidue-Shaie, assassinated by the Morag Tong.



Wulfharth was Dragonborn according to Balgruuf, which suggests it's common thought in Skyrim. Ysmir seems to be the title for "Dragonborn". Wulfharth didn't show a single Shezarrine like quality until he was revived by Shor.