And you're entitled to your opinion, but it reflects an incredible lack of understanding about how MMO mechanics work. As does your remark about subscriptions. Single-player games don't get free content updates every few weeks. Single-player games don't require constant maintenance and upkeep. Comparing payment models between MMOs and single-player games is like comparing chess to rugby.

I'd personally kill for them to abandon the raid idea entirely and go with strictly dungeons for endgame PvE. Public and instanced.

Sick and tired of raiding already. Every single friggin game. Raid raid raid raid raid or you have nothing worthwhile to do at endgame.

It's so bad that World of Warcraft now has a queue system for RAIDS like they do with dungeons.. and they added NO NEW DUNGEONS this entire expansion... only raids...

Screw raiding already.

What if I understand it, but it just doesn't matter to me like it does to you?

If the game mechanics of a game are not so hot - then what is the big whoop about getting more things to grind on? The chance to socialize at the same time? No thanks - not at that price.

You can compare chess to rugby when it comes to each individual deciding what to spend their money on. It is more than just an MMO - it is a product people are concerned with more than just is this the perfect MMO - it is a game and a product.

Your position seems to indicate that the only voice that matters is those of others who already agree on what you think is important. So since I don't understand why anyone would pay full price for a game and a sub and a cash shop - because other games get away with it (though not many that is for certain) then my or other critics concern does not count. Got it.

On topic - until there is more concrete evidence as to what endgame content will be then what do we know? Other than being able to play in other alliance areas? more AZ. Perhaps those will be different instances of the existing zones where you take the PvP war to those areas to conquer them as well. That could be kind of interesting. One instance for PvP another for PvE. Then also perhaps just PvE with one faction already the winner and dealing with the aftermath of that.

Not a single MMO has kept the pre launch promises of regular content every month . To expect that to happen is silly. I have nothing against the subscription model. But lets be honest here, combat is really clunky to have any sort of competitive content. I enjoy the game, i have bought it , but anyone who has played other mmos will have to admit that melee combat in this game is terrible compared to even older games. Since PVP is large scale , people wont feel it as much . But for "competitive PVE" content i just dont see it happening with the current gameplay system. There were loads of complaints during the beta as well about enjoyable gameplay but a distinct lack of control of your character. Healing has been extremely dumbed down and is mostly aoe heals with people complaining that they have no control who what targets are healed up by their abilities.So if people are coming into this game expecting a raid like scenario , i just dont see that happening .

I understand that you don't want to play an MMO if it isn't somehow a single-player game on the internet (at least that's what I get from your indication that getting to play with company not being terribly important to you). That's fine. Play the Elder Scrolls series, which I have enjoyed for years. You don't lose/miss anything by not taking part in this totally different genre of game.

It's not that your concerns don't count; it's that they're a little ludicrous. You at once accept that MMOs have certain requirements/limitations and then in the same breath you attack this game for being subject to those requirements/limitations. If you honestly thought this would be some version of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim online, that's on you. The developers never promised that, and it was a ridiculous expectation to hold. That type of gameplay doesn't translate to multiplayer, and if that isn't your cup of tea, great. But your only solution there is to not play it, because you're asking for things that can't be granted without some significant advances in technology.

Erm..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call_2:_Fallen_Kings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call

They did monthly updates for both Asheron's Call games.

AC1 is still running. AC2 was re-released as a beta for AC1 players at the end of last year. AC1 is still going. Haven't released an expansion since 2005, but they still patch monthly.

And they allow buff bots. It's amusing really.

They're in the game. ESOHead ripped the maps from data already in the beta client. May or may not be "unlocked" at release, but Craglorn exists. ESOHead also has a full list of achievements for that zone.

According to Atropos in his Q+A the other day, adventure zones contain BOTH challenging (Veteran level) solo and duo content (quests and dungeons), AND group instances, including 12-mans. Which is a lot better than what most MMOs give you... they add raids but no challenging new surface fare.

Edit: As a friend of mine puts it, poetically,

the data is in the beta,
to rate and compare,
a fate extraordinaire,
but we have to wait(a),
until they decide to share

This is a bit off topic you understand. no my criticism (which is not an attack btw) is that the heart and soul of TES has been gutted for the sake of an MMO - when it need not be. Some instancing of collision could happen - rudimentary stuff. It didn't need to be a themepark. Sandbox and the endgame would be created by the participants. Both of those are critiques that could be applied to any MMO that was collisionless and a themepark.

The price - I think it too high. Not saying I would never buy it, but they are asking for top dollar on a game that so far has not delivered. So not at that price point. Criticism is not an attack. There is no need to defend.

Ohh so then there we have it - we just don't know if they are PvP or PvE or what is happening there. It seems though it is more of the same to be honest.

Devs said they're pve....so we do know.

Yeah, well if you don't like the rest of the game there's no reason to think you'll like this, for sure

6 veteran mode dungeon raids will be a lot more than SWTOR offered at launch (they only had Eternity Vault & Kragga's Palace at launch)

I also love how people forget this is a vanilla mmo...and for a vanilla mmo, it is very fully featured.

swtor had just as many "veteran" dungeons . Raids in this game will be adventure zones i assume.

Raids will be instances within adventure zones. The zones are a lot more than just raids, as you can see from the map linked above, and the achievements listed at ESOHead.

The 6 veteran dungeons are for standard 4 person groups. There is 1 Adventure Zone (these are somewhat like raids) guaranteed at launch. We dont know how much 12 man content will be in these zones.

Has anyone identified any town or what province that is from. Maybe it is the area between Chorrol and Anvil.

Gosh how bad would it be if another invading Daedric prince was the topic of an expansion of post game content?

i saw the map earlier, is that even confirmed to be an adventure zone map or is it speculation.

What else could it be?

Edit: Quests listed for Craglorn at ESOHead:

http://esohead.com/quests/5106-waters-run-foul 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5025-the-corrupted-stone 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5069-the-warriors-call 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5031-defense-of-warwyrd-temple 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5033-the-star-gazers 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5079-gazerbreak 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5081-the-fallen-city-of-shada 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5083-the-proving-grounds 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5089-elinhir 0 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5099-trial-of-martial-knowledge 50 Craglorn http://esohead.com/quests/5100-trial-of-the-true-path 50 Craglorn

All level 50. Gotta be the AZ.

One of those new content every 4 weeks kind of things - new province area to explore prior to post game.

What people say the subscription pays for.

I agree.

Personally I prefer the story driven content which, from my limited experiences in the beta, seems to be a cut above most other MMOs on the market and I hope they stick to that formula.

I much prefer skyrim with friends than WOW with TES skin any time of the day.

So its speculation then

That doesn't mean it's not an adventure zone I edited my last post with a list of quests in the zone, btw. All level 50.

And yes, it's speculation afaik, but speculation with a very, very high degree of probability, I would say.

This is 100% agree and its where it has succeeded. One of the best levelling experiences in an MMO , for people who dont skip every dialog at least. question is what comes after all that.

Informed speculation, which is better than simply assuming that everything we've seen and heard is part of an elaborate lie the developers are telling us.

Yeah but is it pre end game content or post end game content. If pre then it is just more content.

aw well - it is all speculation, but I expect it to be more the same with higher stats on everything.