Good morning everyone. [This is my opinion and I'm posting this message hoping that the ZoS dev team will read this]

First of all, I'll let you know guys that I'm a PvE hardcoe player and after watching all these interviews with the dev team talking about PvP, I'm a little bit scared about the enggame PvE content. Listen, I really want to have an endgame that will raise to a point that Zenimax Online Studio will keep a large group of players for years. Over the last few weeks, my friends couldn't stop talking about Wildstar and his PvE potential. They are, just like me scared about the ESO one. This is my opinion about this duel between these two upcomming MMORPGs.

I think that Wildstar will have the perfect PvE endgame for the players who love to fight againts:

The enrage timer
A 10/15 minutes fight
Bosses with multiples phase ( Strats / mechanics / adaptation)
Large number of players in a single group

I think you understand where I'm trying to go with this list. I think that The Elder Scrolls Online WON'T be able to win this fight versus a dev team that, in my opinion, will do a great job to create a "classical" raid system.

This is where I think that ZoS needs to do thing original and realistic. I have a few ideas that would make the raiding system interresting, original, complex and UNIQUE.

I would like to see:

1. A game where REALISM is one of the most important things in the game. Now that said, I think that hitting a boss until his HP reach 0 is not realistic enough. I would like to see an other bar under the showing us how many armor the boss still has. A melee weapon strike would surely attack the HP of the enemy, but the armor would play his role and absorb a % of damage depending on the type of armor (heavy / medium / low).

2. A game where the PvE (Raids / Dungeons) would be a brand new experience. I would like to see some "living bosses" programmed by the devs with the intelligence of a human. The boss would have, just like us, 5 spells and an ultimate. You won't have the feeling to fight against an NPC, but a real CHALLENGE. You would only need to learn the basics of "how to fight without standing in fire" and the list of the boss abilities. Instead of taking 10-15min/fight, I would like to try some 4-5min/fight + intense action.

3. A game where the bosses in every instance are simply a higher level version of our characters. I mean, we (players level 50) would be forces to fight against level 100 bosses. They would have, like I said, 5 spells and an ultimate + more skill points (because they have a higher level than us). They would be easy for the devs to create the since they would use they same skills lines than the ones that we're using as a player. Since the main antagonists of this game are using necromancy, I would suggest the devs to create a new skill line (only for bosses) and this skill line (Necromancy) would be used by every "Necromancy type" bosses of there.

4. A game where we need to destroy the bosses' armor before they die. Some bosses would have more armor than others since they would be created like a tank and some none because they would be a "caster" type. The nice thing here, is that, since we've destroyed the bosses' armor, when we would loot them, all their pieces of gear would drop. They would all be broken except of 1 (that would be rolled and usefull) and 2 that will recquire to be repaired (making the crafting usefull).

5. A game where, saying that the Adventure Zones would be some open areas, we could skip some bosses and go immediately to the wing's final boss. This would increase the difficulty to Hard Mode because, when fighting the wing's final boss, the boss(es) that are still alive would come, one after the other, helping him. Every time you skip a boss, you would need to kill him immediately when he'll spawn in the wing's final boss fight. At 1% HP, the wing's final boss would sacrifiate the life of his friend by absorbing his soul, making him stronger since he would now obtain an other ultimate. When a wing's final boss + soul(s) will die, he will drop a Black Soul Shard (for the strongest enchants on Tamriel). Each boss could only absorb 3 souls. Over that, there is gonna be too much power into a single person, so he'll explode, destroying all the room. If you wanna try to skip all the bosses of the raid and go to the Final Boss, this is what it's going to happen, because the 4 wing's final bosses would help their master and they would give him a soul.

***Special ideas*** If the Final Boss explode, he'll destroy all the room and he'll give by spreading all his power (from the souls) to every members of the group. Now you think that this was Hard Mode ... After that, you'll have to face a lord Deadra into his realm (the explosion would have open the path to the Deadra's Door). This boss would be level 9000 and immortal. Special gear would drop in a chest before he disapear in fear!. You'll need the buff from the souls to be able to defeat him, you mortals!

This thread makes me so tired. You've described exactly what I hope doesn't happen; long raids and dungeons that drop elite equipment. Counter productive for a game where AvA is the focus.

They'll probably [censored] up the PvE endgame big time, though it's mere speculation^^

The current focus of ESO is on PvP and I guess they have no effin clue, what they want to do about PvE endgame. Otherwise, they would have shown at least a bit. In the long run, PvP is going to be pretty boring for most players, as it doesn't differentiate much from GW2 or AoC.

the combat is too clunky compared to wildstar or other PVE centric games to have competitive pve content, what i am assuming is adventure zones will be instanced areas with world event type bosses like in gw2 .

Why is only your interest what the devs should be focusing on? I am just guessing but based on your comment you seem more pvp oriented, which is fine, but as many have already stated that is usually the small minority. Again, I don't see myself saying, "well pvp is so small it should be ignored and neglected." Why because focus on both pve/pvp brings in people instead of keeping them away. Also, if your focus is AvA then how does that force you to do the raids that you loathe? I mean You only want to get gear based on pvp merit, well there is a section of people who enjoy bosses and dungeons and the group mechanic that comes with those challenges. To focus solely on pvp to the neglect of pve will be the downfall. Pvp is always the smaller crowd, and I have played my share of mmos of the decade of mmo gaming that I have been playing. But if you focus on both and give players a wide variety to choose from then you'll have a winning game.

Aeno

That is the thing people have been crying out for something different and how this mmo is compared to others is what people want. Will that take time to adjust and provide content that is appropriate to this type of game, yes, but if they are doing things right then people should be willing to wait. Will the combat hopefully be improved on, as I said I hope so. But to just neglect it will kill the game and people will stop subbing, and it will go ftp yadda yadda yadda sad but true. So they shouldn't ignore the endgame because the game wont last without one.

Aeno

No. The OP is describing the same type of raids that we've had for more than a decade... enrage timers, phases... really?

This crap got so boring that you could program an entire raid into a hotkey. Auto attack until a certain time, cast this spell, wait for the cooldown, cast another spell... wait until it hits this time... no

ESO bosses do not have timed mechanics. They are more AI driven with similar skills and abilities of players.

You might be surprised and pleased with the adventure zone setup along with the other end-game PvE.

OP actually said ESO should do something different.

Well some of these things could fit right in and be just fine for example enrage timer or enrage based on his health and harder hitting mechanics once he gets lower. I mean seriously they don't have to recreate the wheel they need to use both common things that people are familiar with and still change it enough to fit their mmo.

I would love to be "pleased" but they have shown nothing which has many worried. Because again, and most see this as true and it has been reiterated numerous times without a source of endgame the game will fail. The devs need to pull everyone together in order to maximize their profits not keep people away.

Aeno

actually if the end would be as disappointing as GW2 I hope ESO doesn't have a particular end at all..since it is subscription that might be best too,always new content,new adventures and places to explore

PvP is a minority compared to PvE.

Most people want dungeons and endgame raids way more than PvP, thats just the way the world is.

If you make an AAA MMO with a sub and dont make epic endgame PvE you've doomed yourself right off the bat.

And im sure Zenimax has held this secret so far, since its something big yet to be seen.

They need to have an endgame minus just more questing at 50. Else they wont have the fund to create constant content because people will get bored and leave.What they have planned i dont know , but they need something.

I know what I am about to suggest absolutely terrifies gamers, but how about we wait and see?

In recent games, PvP has been dictated by PvE; if you raid, then your stats are so superior to other players as to negate skill. What the original poster was appearing to describe was the classic gear grind game; if you raid and do hard mode, you get superior equipment to do more difficult PvE dungeons. The problem is you can't segment the equipment so that PvE gear rewards don't impact AvA. It may be he was suggesting these things to have mainly aesthetic rewards like new titles or cosmetically superior equipment, in which case I withdraw my objections.

I'm actually more of a PvE player than a PvP player. I'll likely get involved in the Aliiance War from time to time, but mainly I''ll be questing and doing dungeons. What I dread is the gear grind that every game seems to get into lately.

My hope is since this is largely DAoC 2 judging from the design choices, that top end gear will not be overly difficult to come by, and so the playing field is more balanced for everyone. It's the drive to make the game gear-centric that is the problem, not the focus on one particular playstyle.

/terrified

ESO wont create great end game content versus other devs because they are doing a classical raid system. So here is a bunch of crap that will make it even less like a classical raid system and therefore successful? This is like saying you are not enough like us successful people, here is how you should be more different.

ok your sentence started out with wildstar lol that was your first mistake I am not even gonna bother going into any of the rest of your post, Wildstar looks like something designed for first graders or kindergardners, when you go to build something on your plot of land for example you have a list of items on an easy to choose from drop down menu that item has a plug yes like an electrical plug on the end of it, you go to your land and you find a socket yes like an electrical socket and then you plug in the item where you want it, AND the avatars are so cartoonish/childish they make World of warcraft avatars look like fine art.

ESO cant charge a subscription just for AvAvA. There are tons of AMAZING PvP games out there that are totally free. Guild Wars 2 is the obvious choice, but if it is just AvAvA that you are after then PlanetSide 2 is a clear choice as they do AvAvA better than anyone (and with better and more action combat). Also amazing PvP games like Titanfall, The Division and Destiny are coming out soon and they dont have a subscription. It is impossible for ESO to have a subscription just on PvP alone in this market (maybe 5 years ago it would have been ok, but not now). It needs amazing endgame PvE as well.

Second, I disagree with the OP that Wildstar will have good Raids. We are talking about 40 man Raiding which is a logistical nightmare as well as easymode (there have been plenty of threads as to why 40 man Raiding is bad and easymode, i am not going to repeat it here).

I love the idea that Raiding will be for 12 people in ESO, but i worry that it will not be challenging or progression enough.

I don't know much about Wildstar, but I checked out a video real quick on them.... I needed a good laugh, thank you. Funny to see graphics I used to see on the Nintendo 64 but with advlt language. It reminds me a 13 year old cursing up a storm, but in reality hes just a kid. Maybe it will be a good game, maybe it won't I don't know much about it, but I can definitely say I cannot and will not play a cartoon game. I couldn't play WOW for free on my friends extra account and I don't understand how anyone else enjoyed it beyond the social aspects.

Also wanted to point out good PvP would be a real pain to implement later in ESO, end game raids would be a cake walk. Future patches and expansions for PvP will add a little of this or that but mostly just change balances, where PvE patches can include entire dungeons, bosses, raids etc. I would hope ESO would focus on the difficult content before launch and then add the easier content later.

ESO can and will

To posinivy, wildstar is actually a great game , i am planning on subscirbing to bother games when they launch. My personal opinion is it is impossible to make challenging content for pve in this game using a trinity system precisely because of the way healing works and melee combat being clunky. If anyone was on the beta forums you have seen a long thread about healers complaining about absolutely no control over who they heals target and the rest or just aoe heals which according to people made healing "less skill based and less fun". Secondly if pve content is to be challenging , it was go away from zenimax's motto of play your character however you want since cookie cutter builds will come into play.

Agreed.

Not to mention the lazy scripted encounter mechanics that every MMO uses and just copy pastes into every fight (enrage timer *YAAWWWNNN* etc.).

The encounter design in ESO is miles beyond the simplistic, lazy design present in 99% of MMOs and which makes raid into a no-skill facerolling contest.

I hope (and suspect) we will never see such things in ESO.

You know, it's really funny to watch these threads come up. Before we got to see PvP in action, the constant refrain was "PvP is boring and unoriginal, no one will want to play it, the game is awful, will be f2p in a month, etc. etc."

Now that PvP has pretty much been universally described as excellent, people are getting upset about the PvE endgame content that they haven't even experienced yet. If history repeats itself...

Agree on the first three lines and crossing my fingers that you're right in the last one. I'm hoping to see some new, innovative boss mechanics instead of the same old WoW formula.

Personally, I am looking forward to adventure zones.