Yes, we are going to talk about that.

DRM.

Before you start, no, we are not going to discuss about whether DRM is good or bad. Nothing of the sort here please.

We are just here to talk about whether there will be DRM in this game. So far, the only concrete information we have is that the Steam version will have the Steam DRM (duh!). A lot of people are guessing that the retail version will have install limits, but we don't know for sure.

So here are the two big questions:

• What sort of DRM will the retail version have?
• Will the Steam version have install limits?

Any staff want to shed some light on this? I am quite pleased with the demo, and I am ready to pre-purchase the game. But I want to know what I am getting in the deal before I make the jump.

I'm not gonna buy the game on PC, but I hope to god it isnt included. PC gamers have suffered enough... now they get all treated as pirates.

DRM is not the elephant in the room, it's barely even the chiwawa in the room. DX11 is the elephant in the room. Or rather DX9 is.

I'm not gonna buy the game on PC, but I hope to god it isnt included. PC gamers have suffered enough... now they get all treated as pirates.

That's like saying that a store having anti-theft devices on their products is treating all their customers like criminals. The only people that really complain are the ones who can't steal everything, everyone else is happy the prices aren't going up and the store is still open.

And I don't think the intent of this thread was to debate the merits of DRM, but if you'd like to discuss the moral implications in depth, feel free to PM me.

Imagine when they start using biometrics as drm. Or you bought the game, let us install this chip in your arm. I understand the need to protect their intellectual property, and i really think this is where the mp part of today's games comes into play. By making the mp part of the game a must have, it is pretty much a pay to play thing. But the downside of this is that it cuts into the modding aspects of the gaming scene. What sort of drm do you think works best?

I haven't spent a ton of time researching different forms of DRM myself, because I've never had the dramatic issues people claim exist. I merely know that I'm comfortable with the notion of locking my door when I go outside, and I'm comfortable with companies that make products I want taking similar steps.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people who really study DRM are people looking for ways around it, and/or reasons to join in the smear campaign against it. As far as I'm concerned, the mark of good DRM to me, as an individual consumer buying the product, is that it not inconvenience me, and that it does inconvenience people wanting to steal the product. If it does both of those, even if the second is only to some degree, I couldn't care less.

Look at how much egg Ubisoft was left with on its face after it tried the always online drm method. I think like you said the main goal of it, is to secure your product, and not alienate your paying customers.

I'd like to point out two things:
1. DRM ALWAYS fails, sooner or later, leaving the pirates with a hassle-free version
2. This is why you don't ask anything DRM-related on forums

Sure it fails and usually is an inconvenience, especially securom, i have no qualms with cracking a game i paid for, its like do i really need to have my cd in the drive to play the mp part of it, which is tied to a serial key linked to my email?

Okay. This is exactly what I was afraid of.

Please don't discuss the pros and cons of DRM. Take that to the Steam forum instead if you want to. DRM discussions always turns into flame wars.

Don't really see any flame here, Just discussing aspects of drm.

Not yet. But I am wary of what will happen soon.

Imagine when they start using biometrics as drm. Or you bought the game, let us install this chip in your arm. I understand the need to protect their intellectual property, and i really think this is where the mp part of today's games comes into play. By making the mp part of the game a must have, it is pretty much a pay to play thing. But the downside of this is that it cuts into the modding aspects of the gaming scene. What sort of drm do you think works best?

I am against piracy for sure. As far as 2nd hand games though (even though I can't get them for my format and am not really keen on them anyway for myself) I don't really feel that DRM which is put in place specifically to control the 2nd hand market can be allowed. Why are such things more protected than books and yet the media itself is still cheaper to mass produce. I think it would be quite clearly put us all on a slippery slope for our freedoms and rights to allow such a thing.

Once you allow that you may as well just stick the RFID chip up the butt now and have done with it because there's not turning back from that.

I'm not gonna buy the game on PC, but I hope to god it isnt included. PC gamers have suffered enough... now they get all treated as pirates.

That's like saying that a store having anti-theft devices on their products is treating all their customers like criminals. The only people that really complain are the ones who can't steal everything, everyone else is happy the prices aren't going up and the store is still open.

And I don't think the intent of this thread was to debate the merits of DRM, but if you'd like to discuss the moral implications in depth, feel free to PM me.

Off-topic, but a grocery store doesn't install devices into your food that you cannot get rid of, just to make sure you and ONLY you are "enjoying" the product. Physical anti-theft measures are generally not intrusive (cameras aside) and are removed on purchase. DRM remains forever and in too many cases has dictated what you can and cannot do with your system, even outside of the boundaries of the product (I'm looking at you, SecuROM).

To the OP, I don't think they've said anything yet. I hope they do before release though. It's our right as a consumer to know what our product contains.

Aaaand we're off!

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_9.html
Whole thing is an excellent read, second half of that page discusses SecuROM.

I generally agree with the author on the whole though.

well i guess it the official copy is way to complicated or has to many problems because of the insane copy protection , we will have no choice but use a pirated copy

and sure enough if the digital version is only downloadable once or so, guess what i wont be buying a downloadable version, as simple as that

i just hope they are intelligent enough to realize that there is no copy protection on the face of the planet that wont be hacked, so harder they try it will be just as much of an accomplishment for the cracker to disable/bypass it, so harder it is the cracker will be that much more proud to do the job , and that and glory is 100x worth more then any money for a job, there for this battle cant be won, crackers will be ALWAYS more motivated to do they work then official programmers no matter how much you paid them

i WONT be pre-ordering partially because of these reason, i DONT TRUST THEM, i dont trust they judgement... i wait a few days and see if other people have problems and we go from there, and if i need a chip or my blood (what ever ) to get a game working guess what i WILL get it free

Remember the days when you had to look up exerts from the manual to be able to play your game,i remember when i was like 7, opening dike tracy up, and having to turn to page 27 line 3 word 4 just to fill in the blank to be able to open the game.

Okay. This is exactly what I was afraid of.

Please don't discuss the pros and cons of DRM. Take that to the Steam forum instead if you want to. DRM discussions always turns into flame wars.

woa, you mean to tell me some people actually SUPPORT drm? I learned something today.

Okay, first, what the hell is DRM?

Okay, first, what the hell is DRM?

It's the stuff designed to slow down cracks of a game. Stands for "Digital Rights Management" which is pretentious as all hell. Basically, it's kind of like a movie company having security guys at the premiere of a big title to keep people with cameras out. The longer they slow down the crack, the more money they make, in theory.

The Intellectual Property violators run an active smear campaign against succesful forms of DRM. They make claims about theft of the game being a response to DRM, but the data doesn't back that up in the least.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

that is all

a serial key linked to my email?

that's the best way once a key is verified online im ok with that