Let's talk lore: What if the Dragonborn was executed at Helg

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 pm

We know that the Elder Scrolls don't know the future of heroes, but shouldn't the god of time? Akatosh transcends time. It isn't a thing to him. Even a hero's fate shouldn't be outside of his knowledge, even if it is outside the knowledge of the other gods.
That presumes a predestined, unalterable future (if the past can be altered, it's reasonable to assume the future can be, too). If the future is changed, then not even the god of time would necessarily know.

At Helgen, you were already Dragonborn. You've been dragonborn your whole life.
We can't say that for sure. The Book of the Dragonborn even questions whether someone is "born" a dragonborn, or if it's something granted at some point in their life.
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Gavin Roberts
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:28 pm

Akatosh appoints/anoints the Dragonborn. Akatosh is the God of Time. Akatosh isn't going to anoint someone as Dragonborn if it's simply their fate to die at some chopping-block.

Dragon... God... Of... Time.

Let that sink in for a sec.

Akatosh knows the beginning and end of the kalpa, and all in between. Perhaps things beyond.

That's his job.

The Dragonborn emerges, because Akatosh wills it so. If some axeman somehow manages to foil Akatosh and lop off the head of his Dovakhiin, Akatosh could simply rewind time and anoint another, somewhere else, altering circumstances to fit the emergence. As many times as necessary, and mortalfolk would never know the difference.

Remember, we're talking about a God of Time. Who comprehends ALL of time, all at once.

Actually, he would simply rewind time...what do you THINK is really happening when you reload a saved game?

The player is Akatosh!
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Silvia Gil
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:09 pm

Akatosh calls up his good buddy, the Nerevarine. Dragon-born becomes Dragonborn, and once again slays (pseudo-)divine beings for pure amusemant. Yay.

Oh, and on the subject of Dragon(-)born: I still believe the Nerevarine is a true Dragonborn, just that he has a different prophecy to fulfill and his abilities are never made apparent because dragons didn't exist at the time (which is the defining difference between the two). After all, it's mentioned that Cliff Racers were responsible for driving the dragons from Morrowind, and they certainly seem to love attacking the Nerevarine..
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naome duncan
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:34 am

Akatosh calls up his good buddy, the Nerevarine. Dragon-born becomes Dragonborn, and once again slays (pseudo-)divine beings for pure amusemant. Yay.

Oh, and on the subject of Dragon(-)born: I still believe the Nerevarine is a true Dragonborn, just that he has a different prophecy to fulfill and his abilities are never made apparent because dragons didn't exist at the time (which is the defining difference between the two). After all, it's mentioned that Cliff Racers were responsible for driving the dragons from Morrowind, and they certainly seem to love attacking the Nerevarine..

Cliff racers hate everyone... The Nerevarine wasn't a dragonborn in Morrowind simply because the idea of Dragonborns hadn't been created back then yet. At least not in the way that it is now, should Morrowind have come after then perhaps that would have been meant by the prophecy, as it stands it mearly stated that the Nerevarine was born in the Septim Empire.
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lillian luna
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:36 pm

They had been. Talos was Dragonborn, and that was long before the time of the Nerevarine. The only diffierence is that you're the Dragonborn of prophecy in Skyrim. i also doubt he's referred to as Dragon-born because of where he was born, as no other character in-game is referred to in the same way and they all couldn't have been from Morrowind to begin with.

Dragon-born refers to only the Nerevarine in Morrowind. Dragonborn refers to the prophetic hero in Skyrim, as well as those with the ability to absorb the souls of dragons (including Talos). I really don't see it as being a mere coincidence. Dragon-born is, in my mind, Dragonborn. The fact that Tiber Septim (Talos) appears to the Nerevarine in the form of Wulf also implies a connection between the two.
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Krystina Proietti
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:34 am

We'd all be [censored].
Eeyup.
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J.P loves
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:31 pm

They had been. Talos was Dragonborn, and that was long before the time of the Nerevarine. The only diffierence is that you're the Dragonborn of prophecy in Skyrim. i also doubt he's referred to as Dragon-born because of where he was born, as no other character in-game is referred to in the same way and they all couldn't have been from Morrowind to begin with.

Dragon-born refers to only the Nerevarine in Morrowind. Dragonborn refers to the prophetic hero in Skyrim, as well as those with the ability to absorb the souls of dragons (including Talos). I really don't see it as being a mere coincidence. Dragon-born is, in my mind, Dragonborn. The fact that Tiber Septim (Talos) appears to the Nerevarine in the form of Wulf also implies a connection between the two.

What I tried saying was that the concept of dragonborn wasn't created by then... So the devs had no way of intending the Nerevarine to be the same kind of Dragonborn as the one in Skyrim is...

So that does mean that the Nerevarine Dragon-born part meant being born in the Empire, which is kind off special as Morrowind had never been ruled by a party outside of Morrowind, ever.
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NeverStopThe
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:53 pm

What I tried saying was that the concept of dragonborn wasn't created by then... So the devs had no way of intending the Nerevarine to be the same kind of Dragonborn as the one in Skyrim is...

So that does mean that the Nerevarine Dragon-born part meant being born in the Empire, which is kind off special as Morrowind had never been ruled by a party outside of Morrowind, ever.
I don't think it's that simple. Morrowind was part of the Empire at the time, meaning anyone born in Morrowind was also born in the Empire.

Dragon-born has something to do with the Septims, who are all said to have dragon blood. In Sermon 9 of the 36 Lessons of Vivec, Ysmir, Dragon of the North (otherwise known as Talos, or Tiber Septim), is depicted as having the ability to use Thu'um, although none of his future generations are said to have had the same power. That would imply that all the Septims were Dragonborn, but couldn't learn Thu'um because dragons no longer existed (meaning they could absord the souls of dragons, but had no souls to absorb and therefore couldn't learn Thu'um).

So yes, the concept of Dragonborn did exist at the time. It just wasn't as refined or apparent as it is in Skyrim.
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Gisela Amaya
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:37 am

I don't think it's that simple. Morrowind was part of the Empire at the time, meaning anyone born in Morrowind was also born in the Empire.

Dragon-born has something to do with the Septims, who are all said to have dragon blood. In Sermon 9 of the 36 Lessons of Vivec, Ysmir, Dragon of the North (otherwise known as Talos, or Tiber Septim), is depicted as having the ability to use Thu'um, although none of his future generations are said to have had the same power. That would imply that all the Septims were Dragonborn, but couldn't learn Thu'um because dragons no longer existed.

So yes, the concept of Dragonborn did exist at the time.

First, you don't have to be Dragonborn to Thu'um.You don't need dragon souls either. Second, that Ysmir is probably a referance to King Wulfharth. In Skyrim, he is mentioned to be a Dragonborn but before that he was a Shezarrine and Tongue.

Though both Septim and Wulfharth are Talos now.
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roxanna matoorah
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 am

Alduin wouldn't awake.

WIthout the Event, there is no Prophesy.

Without the Hero, there is no Event.
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Arrogant SId
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Alduin would swoop down, eat the World, and then Lorkhan would trick the gods into making a realm for all of them, in which the next kalpa would begin.

:banana:
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Carlos Vazquez
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:03 am

For our next exciting lore discussion: what would have happened if Anu, instead of creating Nirn, just shrugged and let creation die?
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Solène We
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Alduin would arrive at Helgern, realize the Dovahkiin was dead, and start crying.
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Farrah Lee
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:15 pm

One of the guards would take up the battle. He was dragonborn all along, he just didn't know it yet.
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laila hassan
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:08 am

He would get replaced for sure, but until that. Alduin would have already devoured the world.
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Nienna garcia
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:07 pm

Alduin is only as powerful as the number of souls in sovngarde he devours? :laugh:
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Adrian Morales
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:49 pm

For our next exciting lore discussion: what would have happened if Anu, instead of creating Nirn, just shrugged and let creation die?

ANU SHRUGGED: featuring a 96-page long speech by Magnus on the dangers of showing charity to illicit spectra.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:05 pm

ANU SHRUGGED: featuring a 96-page long speech by Magnus on the dangers of showing charity to illicit spectra.
Y U SPOIL IT? THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE climix!
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Destinyscharm
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:55 pm

Hmmmm. That's a tough one. Let's say that your fate would be changed so that you were to die there. People keep saying that the soul of a dragon would be given to someone else. That all depends on if your dragon born from birth, or if Akatosh decides to give it you later in life.
But let's say you are the LAST dragonborn, which is what they got us thinking.
Alduin would then be able to destroy the kalpa, and a new one would start. Granted, Papa Akatosh would likely give him quite the rough talking afterwards.
Of course, Akatosh could just rewind time until things go his way.
On a side note, I find it funny that Alduin ends up releasing his downfall. Especially because it seems like he came to helgen to kill you
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Kirsty Wood
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:37 am

Truly the Dragonborn's most frightening ability.
Along with his access to the mysterious 'Console'. Rumour has it that soon he'll also be in possession of the extremely powerful world shaping artifact 'The Creation Kit'.
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joseluis perez
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:29 am

ANU SHRUGGED: featuring a 96-page long speech by Magnus on the dangers of showing charity to illicit spectra.
I read this yesterday, and I'm still laughing.
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Terry
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 pm

The player must be dragonborn from birth because of the nature of what that means. People who are dragonborn are born with aedric dragon souls rather than normal black souls. That isn't something that changes later in life, as your soul is the essence of who you are. You are actually a dragon, just living in a humanoid form.
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Chavala
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:45 pm

The Awful Fighting would begin again.
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michael danso
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:30 am

The Dragonborn did die at Helgen. He would have lived if he hadn't rushed the priest and had let her do her prayer. You were next in line, so you became dragonborn. That's why the screen went all blurry. That was you receiving the "gift".
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Zach Hunter
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:56 pm

"Each event is preceded by a prophecy. But without a hero, there is no event." -Zurin Arctus
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Justin Hankins
 
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