Hi everybody ,

First of all this topic main discussion theme is going to be the level scaling TES V want to use. So hear is what I think about it. (P.S: Sorry for my english it not my natal language)

I think that once again, the leveling scaling will break a part of the game as it did in TES V as we all know. They want to do it like Fallout 3 which imo is far from perfect and almost as bad as oblivion. They did it right with Fallout: New Vegas...so why not use that level system? So I really believe they will break a part of the game with FO:3 scaling system. Why you ask me? Well let us begin...

1) Breaks immersion a lot: This has to be the main argument. They want to make a world where you can go ANYWHERE from the very beginning of the game. The only thing different from Oblivion is that some area will be set at a higher difficulty in a proportion of you're level. So once again, you will not feel any accomplishement what so ever, you can the beat the game at level 1 and the worst of all....we will see low-life bandits with top tied equipement at the end (because Ryders in FO:3 did have ultimate Big Guns when you were level 20). Think of F:NV how it was cool.... some area you would just get wipped out by foes way stronger than you like the Black Mountain and GOD I felt the immersion for sure. When you remove scaling you get this: Mystery, sense of danger, accomplishement and more!

2) Leveled loot: Even if they hand place item and give you reward for big quest what is the point? It will be leveled again to not make their formula unbalanced. You will be able to go anywhere at anytime and it means you will be able to have the best stuff (which is going to svck because you take it at a low level) at the beginning of the game.

3) OOO: The most beloved mod and most downloaded mod: Well it says it for itself....I am not the only who loves the world OOO offered. If any of you played Baldur's Gate series and such...maybe you understand what I am talking about. Since I am getting this game for PS3 because my CPU is way too old...I won't have mod this time to correct the most breaking immersion system ever created.

Well that is what I think about scaling system....and Bethsheda should read the forums and learn what we think about this crappy system (making it more like FO:3 won't bring back the immersion...it will only correct Oblivion a little bit)...Why don't they just remove it? I know people that like the system have good arguments too...but the majority of people hate the system.

My Hypes:

-The world itself: The world looks beatiful...rly it amaze me...

-Gameplay: The battles and leveling up system looks way better than Oblivion and that is a good thing. Animation in Third person view looks good 2.

Other subject I wanted to rant about:

-Random Generated quest: You have to be kidding me right? It the contrary that makes game better...anyway what do you guys think about it?

-Racism: I wonder if the ywill be racist this time...like orcs hating elf and humans etc....it was really annoying to see orcs everywhere in the Imperial Town and such...anyway that just my opinion

Well let hear you

Please Bethesda, no more level scaling

No more glass + daedric equipment on everysingle bandit

No more of the game being unbelievably easy at level 1, and incredibly hard at level 30

please please, pretty please with a cherry on top?

I don'T know if you're being sarcastic or not lol

I don't think people really understand the leveling system they're going with. Honestly it's really not leveled at all. For example, there is a hard dungeon next to an easy dungeon. The hard dungeon will always have enemies level 25-30 and the easy dungeon will always have enemies level 5-10. If your level 7 the hard dungeon will have a few level 25 enemies and the easy dungeon will have a couple level 7 enemies. If your level 30 the hard dungeon will have a few level 30 enemies and the easy dungeon will have alot of level 10 enemies.

well i hope we'll at least have something like that

scaling like we had in vanilla oblivion really took away from the immersion part of the game. i loved how some enemies were far beyond my lvl in OOO so i had to use all my skills just get out of that dungeon alive

in vanilla, with just a bit more careful planning i could kill anything

Very good topic!

I completely agree with the majority of what was said. The main points being:

* Item drops
* monster difficulty
* world exploring at the expense of accomplishment

It was exciting to fight a weak bandit and find glass armor. But it was sad that when I defeated some uber daemon monster to only discover leather armor. I like the challenge and the goal of trying to improve my skills to defeat a future boss. If I can destroy a dragon at level 5, I will probably be stuck between elation at the success and depression for knowing that dragons were sooo weak.

I loved being able to take off at the very beginning and become the greatest mage the world has ever known! That however was brought down by the fact that I didn't view myself as the greatest mage. If being the greatest mage meant that I can destroy everyone with a weak firebolt, then what did being the archmage really mean? Shouldn't the archmage be someone with the ability to summon great demons, or even be able to cause mass explosion?

I really want to just see the game and test it myself to see if it will meet expectations. I want to be able to make suggestions before everything is set in stone.

Thank you for posting a topic on one of the major issues that bugged me the most about Oblivion.

Perhaps it could be like WoW where different zones or areas of Skyrim will have powerful mobs. And maybe there could be some sort of warning if you were a low level going into a high level area. (Kinda like how if a WoW enemy is 10 levels higher than you or more, his level is ?? and has a Skull symbol.)

That is what it should be actually...like F:NV....remeber if you took the route directly to New Vegas? You had warnings of Deathclaws that would rip you off in one or 2 hits. The main point of a none scaling world is for the world to feel alive and reel. I want, like many others, boss that can only be taken on when im like level 30 and that gives really cool loot...not a leveled Staff of Mass Destruction that if I get at level 5 is only 30% of what it would be if I took it at level 30.

there has to be area that if you got there at level 5-10 you get you'Re ass kicked seriously.... just explore area of the world that are meant to be....and if you wanna play ricky try and take on a level 20 dungeon when you'Re level 12-15 and get the loot that is deserved because of the risk you took and the challenge that it was...

actually the only thing that should be leveled is the main Quest for obvisous reasons....

I agree completely with the OP when it comes to level scaling (even FO3 did it far too heavily for my taste), but I think that Bethesda really like level scaling, so I doubt they'd change it.

An option to disable level scaling sounds good at first, but would require a lot of rebalancing. I would love it if the team went to that effort, but realistically it'll be some kind of mod.

FO3 did not have level scaleing, higher level enemies like death claws appeared more frequently at the top level, but death claws that you encountered at level 1 were no stronger once you reached level 20. so I think they did learn their lesson. (it was pretty much the MW style but a little more advance) I was not very fond of how enemies in NV appeared, if you went any where that was not a map marker location there were fire geckos and that was about it, all the while I noticed that there were virtually no roaming protectrons and mr. gutsies.

I don't understand why they keep level scaling if almost everyone, except the new catégorie of gamer of likes it easy , they don't change it.... I know the game will sell like crazy and get crazy review even with level scaling...but they should plese their fans...they would make more money and sell would not go down if they removed level scaling...I actually think they lose sells with it...

I mean JESUS...it the main complaint on everyone god dam forum of Oblivion...level scaling...don't they get that we don't like it?

I like some level scaling, OB over did it, FO3 was good with some minor mod tweaks. I like having exciting battles for the whole time I play, not just the first 15 hours. I like the not know were everything is during a replay, it keeps exploring fresh.

No level scaling heres why; Lets use the fingers of the mountain quest in OB said quest you could earn a powerful skill that would adjust to your level, good in theory right?
WRONG! If you were level 20 when receiving the spell you would not be able to use this reward spell as it required over 500 magicka .
That's my case.

Dude....before stating something be sure about it...because FO:3 had huge level scaling you just did not see it. On the other, F:NV did not have level scaling...and the game was much more appreciate (even if the score was a bit lower...that is because they did not improve graphic and reviewer said it felt the same)

Level scaling was done right with New Vegas :facepalm: , are you kidding me that game made it worse not better. Your character could find broken equipment at level 1. Fallout 3's system is fine but I wished they would've kept some of Oblivions level scaling for enemies only and some non quest reward items like certain equipment start showing up at certain level.

Go play Oblivion with OOO my friend and it takes more than 15 hours for challenge to be away....In fact you are going to be challenged until level 50-60

Also....maybe the magic works in level scaling but not the items...think about Umbra

Or we did not play the same game or you have no idea what a world of level scaling means...because everything was hand placed in New Vegas...A thug was a thug and gave thug items...a Paladin was a Paladin and gave Paladin items...and if you don't play on very easy or easy or normal then you have no idea how challenging they are and how you deserve that power armor when you take them down...

Hand placed items in New Vegas made it worse not better. Fallout 3 had some set items but the way the game was setup it was balanced becuase of stuff like Repair.

I imagine having god like items only at level 20 by some random Ryder is better than fighting you'Re way throw a hard freaking level 25 dungeon and getting that final item that you fought for... I believe my way gives better accomplishement then yours...but again it a question of opinion

I thought we were discussing vanilla games here, SR will have the level mods to fix whatever issue you have also.

My game of Oblivion did not have absurd level scaling nor many other complaints that many have about OB, same with MW,FO3,etc. I only worry about things mods can't fix myself. FO3 system was very easy to manipulate based on the mods that came out for it, like FWE and others.

and you should be sure that your definition of level scaling is the same as every one else. when people say level scaling, they are mostly complaining about the fact that in OB, a nether lich (once your char was past level 20) would get a across the board stat boost every time you leveled up. FO:3 does not do that, at all, thats a fact. a death claw you face in ole olney at lv 1 will have the same stats as when you return at level 20. the only level scaling in FO:3 was when a death claw would appear in more areas once you were a high enough level.

most people did not mind that stronger enemies appeared as the leveled up, but they hated that the top tier enemies started getting stat boosts every time you leveled up to the point that they start to over power characters that are level 50 or higher.

This, I liked the way FO3 did it for the most part, just tone it down a little and it would be perfect for me.

Level Scaling was a little bit expanded in Fallout 3. I'll give a brief discription of it.

1. Level Scaling in Fallout 3 determined when certain enemies appeared. Super Mutant Master, Overlord, Reaver, Albino, Deathclaw, Yao Guai etc

2. Enemies got upgraded weapons when they leveled up like for example the Raiders got Assault Rifles, Combat Shotguns when they got higher in level.

3. Certain Armor start appearing in stores although you could find them out in the world at low levels.

um what

who complained about the level scaling in Fallout? if you went to Old Olney or downtown DC or a bunch of other places straight from the Vault you'd have your ass handed to you. hell even most of the dungeons were challenging from the start unless you went straight for all the best gear in the game just to break progression and complain that it's "too easy".

the problem with the lack of level scaling in New Vegas is that far too often it was used as a way to railroad the player into staying on the road Obsidian wanted them to stay on. if you went north from Goodsprings you'd get [censored] by deathclaws. if you went northeast you'd get [censored] by radscorpions and nightkin and Jackals. if you followed the road you'd find a bunch of simple challenges and conveniently-placed plot points. experiencing some difficulty is neat, yeah, but being "persuaded" into following the plot in a sandbox RPG is not a good thing.

Fallout 3's level scaling was almost identical to Morrowind's, except a bit more accessible. Oblivion's was an abomination, but considering level scaling was vastly improved in the game that came out AFTER OBLIVION, and it was much better received in the game that game out AFTER OBLIVION, wouldn't it stand to reason that Bethesda would be polishing their most recent attempts at fixing a system?

one of the first things i intend to do when skyrim comes out is unlevel stuff. i want to start seeing high levelled items right at the start. it wont be cheating because theyll be on high levelled foes that appear right from the start too. so if i beat that hi levelled foe, i deserve that hi levelled item. Not like previous Beth games where i only see high levelled foes with high levelled stuff when im high levelled myself