I was just told that Skyrim would have world level scaling. I'm amazed that Bethesda keeps going back to this when it is one of the major failings of their games time and time again. It was THE MOST MODDED-OUT ASPECT OF OBLIVION, yet it comes back regardless. I'm so tired of this run-around.

It'll have similar level scaling to FO3.

Don't worry, it's not the same as Oblivion. It's more similar to Fallout 3, which was a massive improvement in my opinion. There will be some tough enemies around when you're low levels, and equally there will be some weaker ones when you're at higher levels.

It will be done in a different way though, that said im still not a fan of it, but I think it will turn out ok I guess

Even then, it bugs me. I wish they had gone more in the direction of an Elder Scrolls STALKER than a rehash of Oblivion and Fallout 3. It seems they are limited by their own system as it currently is.

Isn't STALKER a linear game?

I actually agree, I'm happy they atlaest wont use Oblivions, but STILL, this type level-scaling just seems like something they wont let go, just like they refuse to implement a transit system

STALKER has a ton of side-quests and exploration.

To be fair to Bethesda, level scaling, while a complete and utter joke unworthy of such a skilled team of developers in Oblivion, was much improved in Fallout 3 to the point where it's kind of unfair to lump them together. Oblivion's was sloppy and a distraction. You never really notice it in Fallout 3 which suggests to me that it was done well...the way it's supposed to be done.

Just having logical loot tables and not scaling the items went a long way toward improving the system.

At the risk of getting flamed... level Scaling does make some sense. It's an open world, the whole world is open to you for the whole game. How do you stop low level players being totally outmatched everywhere they go, or prevent the game becoming tedious for higher level players? Level scaling. Give the early game some enemies that are easily defeated, and give the later game enemies which will still prove challenging.

I agree that Oblivion overdid this principal. You do need areas where low levels will get their ass handed to them, and also places where high levels can be handing out the asses. It's hard to achieve a balance between preventing tedium and allowing the feeling of progression - FO3 system is a good compromise, I think.

I'd say it almost becomes admirable.

Dunno about Arena, but level scaling was there in Daggerfall... it svcked.
Morrowind had severely limited level scaling, it was better.
Oblivion had full level scaling again, it was terrible.
Skyrim will also have level scaling... because they really believe that THIS time it really will be awesome!

Stalker has no levels. no, int's not linear, though it's not open ended either.

I most likely will not notice after a short time...

If it has a set path that allows developers to control the amount of items and level of enemies throughout the game then it is linear.

I agree, I liked the fact that in Oblivion you could just replay and do quests in a different order to get a different feel from them.
Without level scaling there are dungeons and quests where you will get pwnd and that would restrict you to do quests in a specific order.

But there has to be a balance between the two, or the world will just flow with your character and there are no real challenges to overcome or nothing.
Sometimes it's good to get pwnd and to be forced to run away, or to sneak inside a dungeon and be genuinely scared.

Level Scaling is fine with a couple major exceptions. Goblins should have a set level or a range of levels for example 4-12. Animals should always have a set level and Human type enemies should be level scaled but have a minimum level that they start out as, The grunts max out at a certain level and Humanoid Bosses keep going by being level scaled to you by like +3 or +5 in Level.

Quest Rewards shouldn't be leveled scaled at all. The Cruelty's Heart should always be Strength +10 Willpower +10 at any level whether it's level 1 or 25.

If they can do that then Level Scaling is fine to a degree. Fallout 3's system was fine but you still were a god at high levels well that's because of Comprehension.

That is a pretty inflexible definition of linearity.

STALKER is level-less except for gear, and even that is somewhat limited. As for the amount of items? The STALKER games have items called artifacts scattered throughout the world. These are enhancers worth a lot of money. They are randomized. Crates are also for the most part randomized. When a world-event called an emission happens, artifacts are scrambled and re-randomized.

I think Skyrim will have a good balance, just like Fallout 3. Although I REALLY hope that quest rewards aren't. It absolutely svcked in Oblivion if you got one at a low level, as it becomes useless the farther you progress throughout the game. <_<

STALKER is not linear at all, and if you like really creepy atmospheric worlds you should check it out. (the first or third one, apparently the second isn't so great.)

On topic: uhhh lvl scaling sux

IIRC, TES has never known a major numbered title to NOT have level scaling and leveled lists in some variety.
Draw thine own conclusions then on the presence and merits of a system that uses level scaling.

not, the second one wasn't so great.

The problem is that when a game uses levels, you have to handle the fact that the player will become more and more powerfull, and what is a treat at the begining it's not later, while what is a treat later is excesive at the beggining. Too much level scaling is disapoining, but the lack or it could be even worse (earlier japanese RPGs).

Yeah, alright. The problem is, Oblivion murdered the concept of level scaling so badly that now whenever the mere phrase is uttered, ES fans begin to convulse or start rambling to themselves insanely.

I prefer zones A bit like in an MMO. But without taking the freedom from the game.... hard

Whats with that reaction OP? Level-scaling has been there since TES1: Arena (you will probably not meet at low levels but on high ones you will meet them quit often).
OB's level-scaling has been radical but it has been confirmed by the devs on Twitter that SK will use F3's Level Scaling which was far better handled then OB's.

There was very little wrong with FO level scaling, and seeing this isn't the first thread to bring this up, there's very little wrong with playing Stalker and then playing Skyrim, but I'd rather not play both at the same time, thank you.