How does it break immersion if you don't use it?

Even Daggerfall had map-based fast travel. If I remember correctly you could even travel to places you hadn't visited yet. So Oblivion/Fallout 3's system in that respect was actually more restrictive.

Care to address my other points?

And because it's like if there was a skill called "laser pistols" it doesn't fit and doesn't feel like it belongs.

Daggerfall was more in depth. You had to choose what method you were going to travel by (recklessly, cautiously etc), whether you want to use a horse, boat, use inns. All these options would affect the outcome of the trip, like your health, your money, travel time. In Oblivion it was basically teleporting.

So what modes of transportation would you have liked to see in Oblivion, that fit in culturally and geographically and aren't half-assed, as you clearly see fast-travel to be? I'm curious. You had horses. Use those. You had transportation via the mages guild. Use that. No one also stopped you from walking everywhere; that is VERY immersive, no?

It's not optional, though. Nobody wants to walk around a large world for that long. Everybody wants fast travel in some form. It's just that instead of giving us options (like a Morrowind system) they only allow a system akin to teleportation. Not using it isn't the issue, the issue is that it's the only method available in the game.

What other points? And if you don't think it doesn't fir or belong then like I said DON'T USE IT! You don't have to do anything with fast travel if you don't want to. There is no good reason to complain about fast traveling when you don't have to acknowledge its existence.

@Spark_212 Have you ever been forced to fast travel? No I didn't think so, which means it is completely optional.

Yea walking is immersive, but sometimes I'd like to get from city to city fast, in a manner that actually feels like it belongs in the world. A carrage would be allright, I'm not familiar with SKyrims animals, so can't really tell, but magic teleportion is the least immersive thing I can think off

Because the excuse "if you dont like it, dont use it" is crappy because Oblivion had quests that started on one side of the map and sent you to the other, expecting you to fast travel, walking all the way there is not fun or an efficient option.

" still removes the chances of other and better systens in place for people not using it, almost forcing us to use it." The world is designed to have some sort of fast travel, the fact that currect version svcks bigtime is an issue

The issue is there are no disadvantages to fast travel. Add a disadvantage to Skyrims fast travel system and people will stop complaining.

...

So you mean horses? Adding something like a silt-strider, if anything, is simple as they do nothing but sit there. I fail to see how adding a simple carriage at every town's entrance is particularly immersive. And why is magic travel not immersive? Is there anything about it that particularly doesn't fit into TES universe?

Yeah I know walking is not a fun option but that is why fast traveling is there, and yes the fast travel system may be crappy to you but that is why it is optional, and if you truly have a grudge against fast traveling then svck it up and walk/ride a horse. If not that then svck it up and fast travel.

I really hope Bethesda doesn't have this mind-set. "Don't like something? svck IT UP!". Sadly enough, that mind-set is why I'm mostly sticking to indie games at the moment, considering they actually listen to their fanbase.

Radiant Story seems to me something akin to a bridge between Oblivion and Daggerfall. The Radiant AI of Oblivion certainly seemed like all bones - and Skyrim sounds like it's adding the meat. It's at the same time providing the NPCs with different ways to react to you and what you do in the environment, as indicated by the example in the magazine of dropping a weapon on the ground where people may find it, and also giving randomly generated quests as part of the bargain. Random quests, you say? That's something many a Daggerfall fan would have balked at if you actually suggested it actually became a feature. Of everything in the article, the way Radiant Story plays out sounds like it would have the most profound effect on my game... How well it's implemented may be the make-or-break feature.

Now, with respects to the leveling in these random quests, I'm optimistic. The article only states that the game tailors this content to your experiences and abilities, and that some enemies will be matched to your strengths and weaknesses. There's still a myriad range of possible implementations for that:

1) Some random quests will be, by their nature, easier than others. A randomly generated delivery quest will be easier, say, than a randomly generated dragon attack.
2) There may (and likely will) be randomness to the enemies generated, both in their difficulty and their equipment.
3) Random quests may have an internally set (and possibly random) difficulty slider, that would affect all the enemies for that quest.
4) Beyond the levels of the enemies, it could affect the type of enemy... Giving more (or fewer) ranged opponents if you are a melee specialist, for instance.
5) And more, I'm sure, that I'm just not thinking of.

At the very least, we know (Thanks, Gstaff!) that leveling will not go to the extremes that it did in Oblivion.

Yea, if it was common for people to have the ability to simply teleport to anywhere they had visited before, I'm pretty no travelers would be walking the roads would they?. And no it may not be immersive to have a Skyrim version of a silt strider in each city, but atleast it wouldn't ruin immersive. Also, it would make it so you could only travel between cities and not to and from any known location at will

Last time I looked this was a thread on level scaling, not fast travel. Are you folks lost?

Please stay on topic.

i would be happier if it was more like new vegas but fallout 3 was better than oblivions.

Okay back to topic: I don't think we should worry too much bout level scaling, they're said it's gonna be more like fallout 3 than Oblivion, which is the best info we could get atm

I love how everyone thinks that the Morrowind fast travel wasn't teleporting or immersion breaking.... Yes, Oblivion's fast travel was experimental and they should make it where you can only fast travel to major cities or tiny villages and not POI but why do you say that fast-travel in Oblivion is any more akin to teleporting as Morrowind's? The only difference is that in Morrowind you had to walk to a guy, which took twenty years because you ran at a snails pace in morrowind, and then you throw your money at the guy to take you somewhere. Now if in Morrowind when you did that you actually got on the Siltstrider and rode there in real time than I would agree with you but it isn't, it's exactly like Oblivion and the Morrowind fanatics are just splitting hairs so they can have one more thing to complain about Oblivion. The only difference is that Oblivion can go to any POI which should be removed but it's not teleporting, time lapses as you fast travel. Morrowind fan boys :banghead:

Well, the only 'fast travel' mechanism I can recall from the article is using the dragon shouts. And if that is the only mechanism that exists in the game, it does indeed come with disadvantages. The most obvious is that it will first need to be learned to even be used. The second, though I'm only inferring here, is that dragon shouts will likely be limited in their use - I'm guessing by exerting your stamina - so that they cannot be used to excess.

Apologies if another, map-menu mechanism was alluded to in the article... I don't recall seeing so.

Edited to say sorry for continuing this topic... I got caught up in the fray, but I'm only human! Back to scaling, people!

Getting back on subject, the article didn't appear to suggest level scaling itself. What it seemed to be talking about was the way quests would be generated based on the player's literal experience. That is, it seems to suggest that if you spend a lot of time going into vampire lairs and cleaning house, there's a chance you will be presented with a quest involving lots of vampires and possibly some kind of uber-vampire. It sounds like a realistic method of quest generation. People who need something important done don't normally hire amateurs. They hire someone who's experienced in doing similar tasks.

I'm a little disappointed that they're sticking with levelscaling, albeit milder levelscaling. However the quest-generation/radiant-story thing they have going sounds awesome and I can't wait to try it out!

I'm siding with you on the level scaling debate. They're not going to go against the #1 complaint of Oblivion.
I'm willing to bet they also fixed psychic guards and animals will run a marathon with you. I mean, come on people! Do you really expect them to make the same mistake twice?

Now about random quest scaling, I think that this will be a very fun part of the game.. I myself made a thread complaining about nothing to do at high levels. You know the quests, you know the rewards, you know everything about the darn game. I knew in a dark brotherhood where the enemy would be standing. I literally ran through the dungeon without sneaking to poison Rodderick because I knew where the guards would be and they would take their time. Same with the prison assassination. This gives us a truly never ending game as long as it is done right. I suggested the use of random quests at the end of faction/guild story lines. They completely one upped my idea and (hopefully) put it to use on a grander scale. We will of course have to wait to understand the whole system, but if is what I expect it to be, it will be a large part of the game. It should to role players, questers, and people who are just tired of the same old same old.

Hey squeekers1234,

Do you think it might be a good idea to put Gstaff's quote in the OP? Most won't bother to read the thread....

They stated earlier in this thrread that every single game of theirs has had level scaling, so them confirming it doesn't mean anything actually. It was also confirmed that it's not gonna be like oblivion (phew)