No, that is a terrible solution. I'm sure there are many players who play with high difficulty from the onset, what should they do then?

The game is not supposed to have infite content, simply make the toughest enemies really really tough, simple as that

Oh, you mean like in Morrowind?

As I said we definitely don't need OBs level scaling, but I don't see a problem with what we've seen in New Vegas for instance.

Actually I would've liked Morrowind to have more really tough enemies, but yea prolly the closest. in New Vegas you didn't notice the scaling either, which was lovely, if they do it like that (with regrads to the scalig) I'd be quite happy

Can you not see the gaping flaw in level scaling by the post you just made? You're going into what is supposed to be a terrible place full of difficult enemies and you're being forced to do it early. Would it not make more sense to have the player toughen himself up before he goes in there? Would that not be more typical of an RPG?

Also, the NPC's die because they have lower level caps. It creates the illusion of an epic battle that simply isn't anything of the sort because the player is also higher leveled and therefore the enemies are the same toughness at almost any level.


If it was my idea of a difficulty slider, they would die constantly until they are forced to lower it; I assume from your post you are implying that the difficulty slider will not go high enough. I would make the enemies incredibly hard on highest difficulty, like a one hit kill from a Daedra.

What would be really nice, is if they gave us the option to choose between leveled or unleveled. It would require more work for them of course, but would cater to more people.

It would, but it pretty much be like populating the world 2 times, which world be an immensely tasking job, risking having versions being quite bad.

It should be assumed that item scaling is out. I really hope they learned their lesson on that one. Hard items need static enemies to match. I'm actually going to be honest in saying I don't have any suggestions on fixing creature level scaling. I'm not a game designer, and I'm guessing most of you aren't either. If all you are thinking is "It suxxx" then I guess you are technically posting your thoughts. I had hoped for a bit more intelligence than that.


You're right, we shouldn't cater to the majority of people who buy the game and fund Bethesda projects. Let's say F*** the regular people who pay for our game!!!

I want a type of scaling where some enemies scale, like the random enemies you meet in the wilderness. But i want dungeon and such monsters to not scale. For example, i want to walk into a cave at level 5 and be one shotted by a dragon (the cave is it's lair) because i am not strong enough to be there, but i dont want to be murdered on the way to said cave.

Also, i dont want loot scailing (except gold mabye) If i do a easy quest, i should get a low level reward. If i do a hard quest, give me umbra!

It's not supposed to be easy to start with. It's an RPG and you are role playing a prisoner, someone with few skills. You are supposed to work your way up and get stronger and stronger. The excuse that "It's too hard to start with" is the reason why we got the crap we have in Oblivion where at a level 1 you can kick ass from the start with out any skills and not have any threat to you. That's not how an RPG is supposed to work, it's supposed to be difficult at the start and the better you get with your skills the better you are at kicking ass.

I'm not dumping on you Redguard King, I'm actually glad you brought this up because this is my major complaint with Oblivion.

I want a limited form of Level Scaling. All the non monster Dungeon Bosses should be leveled scaled and certain quest bosses including the Final Boss should also be leveled scaled but mostly everything else should start out at a minimum level and max at a certain level. In Oblivion with the expection of the Minotaur Lord and possibly the Ogre, all the monsters had a set level which I think was done correctly.

Since when does children = regular people? o0 What he was saying is that extensive level-scaling caters to people who don't really wanna be challanged in the world but would rather have a world tailored to them so they know they'll never encounter anything that can't handle, aka children.

Personally I'm going from experience. I modded all leveling out of Oblivion and have been playing it that way for over a year now. Believe me, it rocks!


Well, I didn't mean it quite how you took it, it was more of a metaphor

I don't like level scaling at all. I don't want a rat to be able to go toe to toe with me when I'm high level. Just like I wouldn't expect my level 1 beginner character to be able to fight high end monsters.

Level scaling is a good thing but not when you find a unique item on level 4 and find out if that had been 4 times more powerful if you had found it on 27...

Bethesda will definitely make better level scaling, I mean they already had practice with Oblivion, Morrowind, and Fallout, and probably know what people want

Personally I would like to see the Level scaling be like Morrowind's. Some creatures level scaled, others not. I think that that gives the perfect combination of playability and challenge.... As long as you play with the difficulty slider maxed like I usually do.

The MQ areas will definitely be levelscaled (personally I'd rather it didn't, though). Though, it isn't necessariuly a nuisance if it's implemented appropriately - as in retaining both challenge and sense of progression. This, I think, could be achieved through "step based scaling" where the enemies are never matched to the player, but set decently higher - and triggered not right after the player has surpassed the previous scaling, but a couple of levels later. It would require the player to work a bit more, but at a less steady rate as the progression would show results.

Say one reaches level 5. The enemies would be set between levels 7-10 and would scale up not sooner than when the player reaches somewhere between levels 12-15 (or, what would feel most appropriate). This would provide challenge as the at the point of scaling the enemies are adequately stronger than the player, and give a sense of progression as once the scaling happens again the previous enemies have become adqueately easier. This could also be partly handled through the difficutlysetting (the harder the difficulty - the higher above the player the enemies scale, but withing sensible limits).

That, of course, should only apply to the MQ path, which should be narrow enough to allow the offpath areas to live as they are. The rest of the world should be set as zones, all of which would offer enemies at certain levelranges which shouldn't be dependant of the player at all.

Just a quick thought...

I dont get it.Whats the point of level scaling.Theres no fun in that.No real danger.I say no level scaling at all.

I have not played FO3, but from what I here on this forum, I really should.
Its on my list of things to buy.

People seem very happy with the fallout level system and it kind of reminds me of Morrowinds
As you level up, higher enemies appear, but lower ones never completely vanish.

But I also hear people say, correct me if Im wrong, that a certain area gets "level locked" once you enter it.
The enemies in it are scaled to your level at that time and that doesnt change.

If Skyrims level system is like that I hear described from fallout, I dont think that feature is a particularly good idea.

I like to explore.
I like to not bother about quests unless I stumble upon them and just roam around at first, get used to the game.
But if things are locked in place that would mean that by level 25 I would only ever meet lvl 5 or so creatures, because Ive probably been there before.

Now I might be totally wrong here as Im only going on what Ive heard describe.
If I am, please tell me.

I would like something akin to Morrowinds system. Only with slightly more levelling, e.g. a golden saint will be level 20 when you first meet it (rare) at lvl 15, but lvl 25 by the time you are level 30 and they are more common.
This would allow for the player to achieve a feeling of actually getting stronger, the enemies do not level as fast as you do.
And it would also mean fights dont become boringly easy at high levels.
NPC's would also have to level, unlike in Morrowind, but maybe with a level cap.

Anyway, Im sure the game is in such an advanced state of development that the levelling system is now totally done and immutable.
But that is what I would like.

Is anybody else worried at the lack of detail on this area? I mean, all we got was a sentance saying something along the lines of 'since so many people are concerned about levelling, we'll give a one sentance overview and its similar to FO3'.
I would like to hear some real detail on this, if only to stop me worrying so much that they will make similar mistakes to Oblivion.

I think that partial level scaling should be in place - for example every dragon starts out with lvl 50, so that a level 10 player will have no hope against them, and remains there until player reaches level 40, at that point at last half of the dragons should be kept at player lvl+10, so fighting them is always a challenge - you learn to fight dragons, but they, being intelligent, learn to fight you in turn.
The scaled whey you enter the region thing is just stupid - I want to be wary of venturing behind the city wall at lvl 1, in TES you can level without going in to direct combat, so it'll be good if it made sense to learn a couple of things and arm yourself before you go "cave diving", isn't it? With the "scale when enter" system if I go around ruing like crazy and poking my head in every cave at lvl 1 I'll get most of the world stack at lvl 1 character set up, which ill be quite lame later on.
No to mention that "it's to dangerous I can't go to that region yet" thing makes the game better paced - you have a reason to level, an anticipation of going to new places and seeing things you are unable to right now. Having all the world just handed to you on the platter if only satisfying if you don't plan to play the game for more than 20 hours with one save. And I don't know about you, but I have 100 - 200 hours old saves, in previous TES games, and I certainly hope that Skyrim will give me a reason to stay interested at last that long.

I guess we can only hope they have come up with a system that might not be perfect for each person, just good for all players.

Hopefully they will find a good balance, they can't please everyone.

Luckily I'm on PC so I can just mod it.

I don't want level scaling i want to be beaten down by a Minotaur and then come back a couple levels later and bash his skull in.