pretty much could just keep the old system, but take out the garbage that is monsters lvling with you. nothing makes your character feel less progressed then fighting one of the first mobs you fought comming out of the sewer 50 lvls later and it being just as hard to kill. If i stumble upon some place 2 mins after making my character where the people there just dont mess around, i should get my butt handed to me. then leave and train and go back and pimp slap em all then loot em lol.

Too many people are stuck on levels and not skills.... if you want skills increasing that is not effected by leveling have you total number of skill points in major skills be what the game uses to dictate level scaling. It would be the exact same thing and would eliminate the stupid arbitrary level stuff. Oh... attributes increasing automatically along with skills would be a great thing.

To recap:

Scaling is based on your total number of skill points in major skills.
Attributes increase based on how you increase the skills.
To satisfy people who want to know their "level" put in a box by your skills that has your total number of skill points in major skills.


It may take a while for people to adjust, but I think it would work better overall.




*as a side note: I see no difference in fallout system where you spend time gaining experience by adventuring and applying points to skills as spending time standing in one spot for the same duration of time casting a spell repeatedly like a fool and doing nothing productive. If you were really all for skill leveling you would have it based on strength of skill used and variety of abilities in that skill used (use different abilities and the skill goes up faster) Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the attention, and trying to read through my posts, sorry, but sometimes I have problem finding the right phrases, as English is not my first language.

As I have suggested in my Perk thread, there can be a pool of generic class perks that one could select from when making his custom class, so this is not a problem.

But In my other thread about character development, in my last post I suggested a sort of progressive classes, in which you select a background for your character as a sort of basic class for you character, but you could develop your in-game class by joining guilds, and in those guilds you define you character class and as you advance in the guilds, you specialize your class to more specialized powerful continuations of the former basic classes.


I do not understand, one can learn new tricks by inventing them for himself, i.e. reinventing the wheel, but it would be a lot easier for you if you learned the tricks from the master who knows them and knows how to teach them.

This is what has been done through out the Earth's or Nirn's history.


There are two mind sets about this topic, one is for whom that like the sense of progression as they can go where that previously could not go, and one is for whom that want to be able to go wherever they like and whenever they apparently, we differ here.

But I can understand this, and suggest that the surface areas could scale relatively to player level, but there should be places more dangerous than other, and some out of the way places should be really dangerous, but on the other hand, the internal cells and dungeons should have different and varying levels of danger and the deeper that you go the more dangerous they become.

But for myself I prefer the other mind set and say no scaling to player level at all.


No, in Morrowind this was not as simple as keeping away from daedric shrines to keep safe, as some places like ash-lands and especially inside ghost fence were really dangerous places for low level characters.

But as I have said in my last link of the last post, they can develop a system that can satisfy both mind sets and scale the monster and loot levels to player level or region difficulty level in any percentage that the players like.


That is an idea, but I would not replace the sense of progression that the level-up sessions give me with anything else, and those sessions can be more rewarding that just selecting a few attribute points as I have described in my first linked thread.


I know, but I posted that comment for the players that had previously written that if there was no level scaling, then players could go to places that there are high level items, and get them by invisibility spells, and get back, and that would be cheating, so I suggested a method that would prevent that form of cheating.


I know it, but IMHO if you want to convert a huge orc barbarian with calloused hands who till now was at home when wielding a huge maul over his head, into a sneaky thief, expert at picking locks, then it should be a task approaching impossible, at least really hard and time consuming.

You can start another character who is more appropriate for the sneaky thief role, like a agile Bosmer, and that's called re-playability, and that is why I suggested such character development system.

Bah, of course it is more realistic to have a skill increase as you practice it rather than having an abstract Xp point system, but heck, when i play a game i care about fun, not realism, and i find it immensely more fun to get xp and increase in power by solving quests, killing monsters and doing "adventure" related stuff rather than sitting in my room casting flame spells on myself then healing me to increase destruction or restoration, or swimming around in a lake for hours to increase athletics...can anyone explain me the fun part of this real-life (and soo easy to exploit) style training?
Oblivion XP mod increased the fun factor of Oblivion for me by 10 times, and i cant care less it is totally unrealistic.

Small tweaks would be fine, a total reboot of the system I don't believe is necessary otherwise it wouldn't be very ES-like. I like being able to upgrade skills by using them versus putting points into a skill upon leveling up. It's more realistic, say if I predominantly use the blade skill but never use hand to hand and when I level up I can put points into hand to hand even though I never once used it...to me that doesn't make much sense.

Personally, I'm fine with how the level system is as it stands. But small tweaks would be welcome, perks or something. Fallout really got me into perks, however it would be hard to implement into a game that has virtually no level cap. Maybe get perks every 10 levels.

I would like it to be like Galsiah's level mod. No levels, your attributes increase according to the skills you use, and your skills increase accordingly.

I agree, the way you get attrbiutes is not rewarding. If you use you level your major skills faster then your minor(and they already do they take less actions to level since they're major), you get less attribute points since you've reached 10 for the next level already. But if you make you major skills ones you hardly ever use, you'll be able to get way better multipliers - which is counterintuitive.

This article at gamesradar had it as their first point for improvements upon Oblivion, I hope BGS has read it. http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-elder-scrolls-v-what-we-want-to-see/a-20100727104656838025

I understand the argument, but why would I want to use weak magic for instance when I can so much more effectively use my sword. This method of leveling forces you to grind. Which is not a good game feature. People complain about grinding. Work is called, "The Grind" for a reason. But if I svck with Destruction Magic, to get better, I'm forced to grind on lower level mobs in order to increase the skill. Not fun. If I wanted to practice something through repetition, I'd learn to play an instrument or learn a language. I shouldn't run into that while playing a game.

I suggested before in another thread that as you level a skill you could get sort of a selection from perks related to that skill to allow you to tailor it to your playing style. As you progress in the skill you can get a choice between more of them. Unfortunately I do not think anyone read what I wrote because people all replied, " no we do not need fallout perks where you improve any skill you want! that is not TES!" When that is not what I was suggesting.... :sigh:

I believe there's nothing wrong with having perks as long as they don't make the game unbalanced. The problem perks would create is how frequently you get them. If it were skill based like your idea, than you'd have to get perks every 10 or 15 skill increases same goes for level based perks. I take it you meant every time you leveled the same skill?

I liked the one from Fallout 3.

I dont know why ppl dont like Oblivion's levelling system.I think its great.

I mean fairly rarely ... like 3-4 perks total per skill. Just enough to alter how the skill functions and not enough to create room for exploitation..... FO3 had WAY too many perks. And they only come when you progress to certain levels of the skills.

The attribute multiplier system needs to be gone, but the learn-by-doing should be kept. The GCD and nGCD mods are what i use, attributes increase as their assosiated skills increase.

Ya.... level scaling of enemies based on your total number of major skill points, Attributes increase based on skill increases, no more *levels* for the character..... or I guess they could keep the levels in but have it just be a sort of indicator of progress and not actually be used for any calculations


I do not know what to do with minor skills. Perhaps, attributes tied to minor skills increase at a slower rate. Well.... there is still nothing stopping people from just using minor skills and clearing everything at level 1 unless enemies have limited scaling so that there are minimum levels. That tends to be the problem with this whole system.... scaling of enemies yet half the skills are basically there for exploitation.


I guess the minor skills added up can not total more than a certain fraction of the total of the major skills. This leveling system is wonky no matter how you slice it.

I like Oblivions leveling system just fine.

There needs to be more ways to train skills up is all, even combat related skills have out of combat applications.

I would like to see skill points system, rather than leveling up. Every skill cost certain amount of points and you decide when you upgrade your character and how, instead of "waiting" for the next level. It gives you more freedom.

the +5, +5, +5 thing when leveling up has to go away, instead you get a fixed number of points every level, like 6 and you are able to spend those points acoring to the skills you used. Also, instant leveling up! Yes I said it, beds would be useless, but tough luck. Finally: experience based leveling, you get experience from raising skills (by using them) and they would give more xp depending on what level they increased to, doing quests, exploring new areas and killing stuff! Fun! Who's with me?

Why try and reinvent the wheel? The problem is that using exclusively major skills isn't encouraged, so let's fix that.

You go a level up when you raise 10 major skills. Then, you get 8 or 10 attribute points to spend manually. For every major skill point you raised, it goes +1 to the multiplier for that attribute. For every 2 minor skills it also rises one. You can freely distribute your attribute points, but you can't add more points to the attribute than the multiplier you got. So you can't become very strong if you don't use combat skills, and you don't become intelligent without magic or alchemy. At a certain level, the attribute points you get become less and less each level, until you can't raise your total attribute points anymore. This makes the characters who are expert at everything impossible, and would encourage more specialization.

I think that covers everything. People are encouraged to use major skills, and choose your major skills on the basis of what you want to use, and what attributes you want to raise quickly. Another useful addition would be to cap minor skills at the average of all your major skills. Otherwise the exploit to get minor skills to mastery level is still there.

I kind of agree, though I'd like them to fix the current system instead. The problem is you are rewarded and almost punished in to many situations for not putting a weight on the cast key to level restoration up or whatever. Far too many skills do not level naturally well so you are forced into cheating the system. Cheating the system is boring, and while they don't make sense the XP systems are fun since you are rewarded for playing the game.

Absolutely. Make the attribute gains be dynamic to reduce micromanaging to get that 5x multiplier. Like TESIII's GCD and TESIV's Realistic Leveling mods. Over 15,000 downloads can't be wrong!

I'd also like to see skills have Major and Minor attributes. In other words, your sword skill would depend primarily on strength, but would also increase more slowly) your endurance and agility as the skill is leveled up.

I love how you level up skills BY USING THEM. It makes so much sense! I really hope they do this. If they do differently I just may not buy the game. :/