Hi,

Just read some of the info released to the American Magazine Game Informer. I am really disappointed that Bethesda has not completely done away with the levelling world around you. It was the one aspect that really brought Oblivion down for me. I am really disappointed that this is remaining. I can only hope it has at least some refinements.

As a previous poster put it very well, I used to have the Morrowind map sprawled out over my desk with locations highlighted for treasure hunting etc, it was incredibly good fun and very rewarding, but I simply couldn't do this in Oblivion, given the way treasure levelled with you.

It seems like we will once again have the leather armour and an apple in chests when you are low levels. Ow well.

Rich

Morrowind used levelling too, just not as extreme as Oblivion. And neither will Skyrim.

As did Daggerfall, just in a different way than Oblivion. How many vampire ancients did you meet at level 1? Level scaling works very well if it's done in the right way.

I remember having played with a high leveled character once and then starting a new one. When I saw an imp my reaction was "Oh! I forgot about those!"

I also dislike Oblivions levelscaling, and I haven't played enough Fallout to get an oppinion on it, but everyone says Fallout does it well and I believe them. The small bit we've seen sounds okey and I think it can be done well

Have no fear OP The already stated Level-scaling wont work like it did in Oblivion, I trust them to do it right this time ^^

Level scaling is a must in an open game like this.

Indeed

Play Fallout 3, as that's the model they're going to use for levelling. It worked great and is very subtle. Some battles you'd feel very powerful, others you'd feel well-matched.

I think Skyrim will have leveling closer to the way it was in Morrowind ot at least I hope.

If they're using the FO3 model then it's a definite improvement, although it's not far enough. I still don't see what was wrong with MW/FONV levelling. It makes the world believable, dangerous areas are dangerous. It's still possible to provide high level characters a challenge with quests design, etc.

I agree with this, but I'm happy they actually went the right direction ^^

Well for one the level scaling in Skyrim IS NOT the same as Oblivion's. Just so everyone is clear about that. I honestly don't remember the level scaling too much in Fallout 3, but I do remember it was scaled by location. Also I'm sure BGS is quite aware that having cookie cutter dungeons without rare rewards killed dungeons in Oblivion. I want to explore. I want to travel. But if there isn't something interesting to be found or seen, what is the point of it?

They are using something similar to Fallout 3's system. (obviously tweaked a bit) here is a http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/wiki/Does_Fallout_3_Have_Level_Scaling_Like_Oblivion%3F of how Fallout 3's system worked.

Indeed, but I want to be able to traverse about 30% of the game area, before my @$$ is handed to me if I decide to go around at level 1. 40% at level 3. 50% at level 6, and so on...

If they can match FONV or Morrowind, it'd be great. In Morrowind, it was a challenge, say, finding a chest, that was locked with level 80, when you're a low-level, then having to mark that location, and come back at some later time to retrieve it. It adds immersion. FONV was the same, except for the fact that fast travel ruined it somewhat, but in any case, my point is made

So basically, it's location scaled, with all locations having a minimum scale, meaning you can quite easily run into some that is is too hard for you. Also, once you've encountered an area, it won't level up with you, it will only scale with you untill you actually engage an area, and even then, each area has a limited amount it can scale. Furthermore it does support handplaced items, which most of us love, so yay

I'm placing a lot of trust in Bethesda to get it right this time. I genuinely believe they've been listening to us on the forums this time, and Skyrim will be a deeper, more polished experience than Oblivion, level-scaling included.

? From how I've understood it, it is more like Fallout 3 leveling system: enemies gears get better as you level, but not their stats. Better creatures come as you level, but weaker will be shown in bigger numbers.

I''ve heard nothing about how the treasures are leveled though.

FO3 got it better than OB, but was still only a small improvement.

Almost everything still levelled with you, but there were a few refreshing exceptions (a few interesting hand-placed items and a few rare random spawns above your level). Visiting an indoor location would "lock" its level, so it wouldn't continue to advance with you. The vast majority of the outdoor encounters were still obviously levelled, so you'd see 95% molerats and other weak creatures at low level, and mostly nasty things like Albino Radscorpions and military robots at high level. I recall going into the "scary" parts of the downtown at low level and thinking "Is this IT? This is easier than the "safe" starting areas". The one spawnpoint just outside the "protected" front gate of Megaton got so bad that the gate guards rarely survived beyond a certain stage of the game, and the spawn point eventually moved inside the town. Having your player stroll past a settlement at higher levels was pretty close to a death sentence for the town. I'm not sure if I recall ever spotting another Molerat outdoors after about mid-game, though.

The indoor locations were "locked" to your current level when you visited the first time, so if they were too difficult, you could leave and go back later. Of course, that also meant that the "goodies" were also locked to the level of your first visit, so returning wasn't all that great an idea anyway, unless you had to do it for a quest. It didn't "solve" the problem, but at least offered a "workaround" for it.

Morrowind used a mix of fixed and levelled opponents and loot, with regional variations, which gave you the best of both to at least a limited degree. It had "safer" starting areas and "tougher" end-game areas, which gave you a chance to "test" yourself against tougher adversaries, if you felt ready for it, but didn't force it on you. There was no need to "lock" areas, because they were already about 50% locked by design, and going back later at a higher level would generally solve the problem without specifically coding the game for it. It wasn't perfect, but could have been "tweaked" instead of creating all of the funky and over-complicated new levelling schemes that Bethesda has come up with since then.

i was playing 10 minutes ago i got a level 35 nord and i saw an imp.....

scn 00SetGameLevelScript

begin GameMode
player.SetLevel 15
end GameMode

;Load mod AFTER chargen.

If only there were an easy solution, like doing away with level scaling entirely! But that's simply unthinkable. After all, someone could wander into an area that's too much for their character to handle, and they'd have to load an auto-save or something.

UNTHINKABLE!

It would be fun to be able to encounter a few though.I actually like to "run for your life".So you could look at the corpses lying around a lair and "leave the area for later" =D

Don't know about Morrowind, but in New Vegas the problem is same enemies in same places everytime.

No leveling at all is the way to go. Just needs good loot to be placed deep inside the dungeons and less exploits like 100% chameleon etc. Enemies should have the ability to spot you depending on their intelligence and Vampires/Creatures should have Detect Life and Night Eye etc to mimic their vision and sense of smell and hearing.