first i wanna tell, i play only 2 gernes, FPS's and RPG's. Oblivion was for me an epic game, which united both. i played it like crazy, i was in rpg-heaven. after some time i realiszed that all enemies have a levelscaling. this ruined my game completly. i restarted the game with unscaled mods but they wasn't statisfed enought. Same whit Fallout.

i hate levelscaling because:

-i mean one of the main theme in a rpg is that there are areas, which have to strong enemies, so it isnt access able which gives the motivation to go to other areas and levelup to come later back, to access new territory and new quest. with levelscaling you will get punished by stronger enemies.

-levelscaling isn't the totaly freedom, it is a prision of self. however where i go i will find always a mirror of my self, its like a curse, which makes all enemies so strong as you however you get strong, there is no escape from myself. i want that the map and the enemies is free from my level. i want a world which doesnt care how weak or strong i am, this gives me freedom from a penetrating mirror

-when levelscaling cause that all the world is depending of you, this destroys the atmoshpere and gives you a feeling to be in an generated videogame like nothing other!

-it makes the world soulless. to be in an combat is one of the main things in the game which causes adrenalin, and it makes a big part of the impersion of experiance, when i enter an area for exploring. when the level is static and territroy depending, it gives this area a soul, by a static level of enemies. the kick of exploring and find out which level the enemies are is lost with levelscaling, the player find only a mirror of himself, there is no feeeling of a deadly dangerous place. i remember Fallout with an unscaled mod, which fear i enjoyed as i saw an deathcrawl with level 9, like i go another way in the hope he wont see me. in other RPG's the enemies have a big part by the impression of an area. with levelscaling the impersion is always flat.

-by playing Oblivion and Fallout there were many dungeons and places to explore, but without limits, it is too much at once, it feels like work to check on area out and then the next area. and because there is no low and highs on the levels only the same level like you with flat gaming experience, there is no much motivation to eyplore them all because the access of all area isn't limited by level or quests. a not accessable area makes psychological this area more worthwhile and demands more respect on lower levels or not completed some specific quests.


please don't only improve in Skyirm the graphic but nothing in gameplay, levelscaling is a sin against a good RPG-gameplay and exploring a world. i understand you developer can't change the game and concept completly, its to 75% done i read. but the levelscaling needs improvement imho, even if you won't change the game, please make it possible that modders can change this easy.

-splitting the world into single levelzones would help this way out. with this the developers and modders can set the level of a area or make it scaling. if the zones can be set in the editor, this would give modders to make their own mix of freedoom and linear gameplay.

-making a mix of levelscaling and static, some too create high and lows experience and not to ovedosed. whit a mix there is not always a flat experience through levelscaling but not always frustrating by too much areas where are to high leveled. some some area/dungeon/quests can be levelscaled and some be static. this is a much improvement into the gameplay.

-there could be a other mix-mod, the level of the enemies in a levelzone can be set by an average of the levelzone and the players level. (for example levelzone have level 10 set, player is 4, so the enemies of this levelzone have the level 7.

-the main quests should have static level at some points, so that they can be played to fast.

-a global variable which can be set by a script throught a mod which contains the level, which the levelzone use to calculate the levels of the enemies. this would be helpful too to make static mods too.

-an other point would be items. weapons and amors could be static but have a level desire, so the player need to be for example level 10 or higher to be able some item. this can avoid to be too strong at low level by high leveled static weapons / amors to early

-an other good idea i find is the make it able to write notice at the map in the game. so can be placed y notice by a dungeon like "enemy to strong" for examle


please don't ruin such epic game with such cheep levelscaling for many players!!!

an other idea (there was a mod for Oblivion):
the respawn time would be much better if it isnt fix 3 days, it would give the game much more suprise and dynamic if the respawn time is randomly between 1 day and 5 days imho.

Level scaling was one of Oblivion's largest weaknesses.

I don't like level-scaling and I would prefer not to have it in the game at all. On the other hand, though, it helps to balance the monsters and loot a bit which can be a good thing... for most people ('cept me and some other hardcoe TES-gamers).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9ox2pMWzw&lc

You do know that level scaling has been improved in Fallout 3 with some areas having minimum and maximum levels, some static enemies and areas locking to your current level.

Skyrim will have the same.

They already said that they are using the Fallout 3 level system.

Level Scaling isn't terrible if used right which it wasn't in Oblivion. Quite frankly it was overused in Oblivion to the point where why should I bother leveling up past 25. Fallout 3 is a better system which is what Skyrim is going to be based off of.

Fix'd to my liking xD But basically yeah, level scaling should just die imo.

Playing through Morrowind again, I've found an appreciation of sorts, for level scaling. Certainly not the kind in Oblivion, but in a world that doesn't scale aggressively enough, yet you're expected to spend a hundred, or more, hours in, the thrill of combat is quickly lost.

Now, Morrowind in theory, actually has very good scaling mechanics, but the lists the scale draws from is not particularly expansive in terms of range. I have modded in some solutions, by making certain enemies a bit more powerful, but that's different than Oblivion's "Just give the same monster 150more HP and problem solved!" Solsthiem in particular is pretty well-designed for challenge, in places. For example, one Werewolf isn't much of a threat, even the level100 monster wolf isn't particularly deadly at level 50. But in Hircine's hunt, when packs of the werewolves swarm you, then you have trouble. The same can be said for the Rikilings and Reavers. Effectively using groups of weaker enemies, is much more effective and rewarding than just giving you 1v1 Minotaur lord with 2,000HP. Not to say those fights aren't fun. The problem was, in Oblivion, that was basically combat in a nutshell. One Minotaur Lord (Or Ogre) after another. No contrast between engagements.

Dragons seem to occupy the "Minotaur Lord" spot, of long-drawn out battle. So, I'm hoping that the other engagements are more about quick-but-fierce battles, and group engagements. Seeing as we rarely see one Draugr on screen at once, I'm pretty hopeful.

Oblivion-style level scaling is out of Skyrim. I think they've listened to fans and are using it only as a minor tool, in much the same way as they use radiant story.

Although, I must admit, level scaling did not seem broken to me, or game-killing in Oblivion, it just hurt my immersion. I found that generally my characters were well enough built that even as their levels got into the forties, I enjoyed combat as an effective challenge.

Still I suppose one'd like to avoid the feeling of just carving through seas of low-level, merely annoying pests.

Combat is incredibly easy in Oblivion, it's just time consuming killing high level enemies with a ton of HP's.

even the levelscaling in Fallout 3 was improved for me it was still not playable until some static mods. but better as in obilvion.

Yeah, level scaling is not fun. I find it to be a hand holding approach to games; which is both insulting and confining.

My suggestion is still the same: have the level of areas of the game be static in nature but randomized on every new game.

That is fine, just at a certain point it becomes very boring. Again, contrast in engagements. I must sound like such a tool, saying that word over again, but it is integral to any experience, it's just how our brains are wired. Be it hardcoe drugs, or our favorite food, if we're exposed to the same thing over and over and over, we develop a kind of "Immunity" towards it's desirable effects.

If you're curious, my solution was to make, in particular the relatively rare "Blighted" creatures, much, much stronger. Blighted Kagouti in Particular is deadly to even high 20's players if you find a pair of them. I had the foresight to adjust the monster size scale a little though, so it's pretty easy to pick out a Blighted from a normal, if say, you're a lower-level player. I turned Ascended Sleepers into something fierce too. And the Ash Vampires now pose a real threat to even mid 50's characters. Of course, Not wanting to make it all "Pointless Hard" I took the time to give some incentive, like with the Ash Vampires, increasing the soulgem size to around 700-900 depending on the particular ash vampire's strength.

http://www.geogum.com/media/uploaded/posts/31c3b9ed65a8c8495f5b3bbcd48f2fcb.jpg

They're using Fallout's system. And that's good. And they're not changing it.

Fallout 3's system is probably the best compromise between Morrowind's Level System and Oblivion's Level scaling system.

I also want to point out, I only think a game should be scaled up, never down. Challenge without handholding please. Furthermore, I also am only generally talking about the "Overworld", not dungeons. A dungeon you visit once, maybe twice in an entire playthrough, barring RP purposes like a having a bandit hideout, but the world itself, you trek hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of times.

I agree completely although I don't know if the Main Quest should be level scaled. I think that's something that New Vegas did right in their game and something that I wish was done in Oblivion so that we don't have these level 1 playthroughs that have beaten the game.

That's something that needs focus testing.

I'd prefer it to be static, with a difficulty curve that encourages the player to not "Go through it all at once", without actually stopping the player from doing it if they want to expend the resources.

Level scaling gets really stupid when it affects peoples armor like Oblivion. Daedric armor is like the power armor of TES, it's supposed to be rare as hell. There was like one full set in Morrowind. Every other NPC shouldn't suddenly start wearing it when you level up high.

I don't like how everything leveled-up with the player in Oblivion, but I don't think a bit of level scaling is bad - it gives the player a constant
challenge.I'd like Skyrim to have a lot less leveled scaling that Oblivion, but more than Morrowind did.Morrowind, as awesome as it was, got too easy.

i to loved oblivion but may whatever god or gods you believe in have mercy on your soul if you pass level 9 the leveling crippled the game badly

Morrowind got too easy BECAUSE you were maxing everything over the challenge of the world. If player is limited just below the challenge of the world then world will give constant challenge just fine without any level scaling. Level scaling by nature will destroy everything in relation and break consistency of the world even in tiny amounts. On the other hand applying it on everything will invalidate progress and turn this game into a giant oxymoron.

Level scaling is e V a L.