It's been said before, but it seems important enough to reiterate.

Levitate wasn't broken, the AI was just not programmed to respond to it. I can think of several things off the top of my head that could help balance the AI with respect to tactical spells (for this, tactical spells means a spell that improves your situation tactically without dealing direct damage):
1. Use the right tool for the job.
- If levitating use something ranged, or dispel.
- If invisible use area effect, or dispel.
2. Use the terrain.
- If levitating try to find somewhere that the floater can't get a vantage point on you, or break line of sight.
- If invisible find water or high grass, find an area that minimizes approach directions.
3. RUN!!!
- For either, if none of the above are available to you, RUN AWAY! It's what I would do. . .You could run to a location that is better suited, or find some buddies that are more equipped for that situation.

I think tactical spells are fun, and would be very disappointed if too many are removed in favor of direct damage spells. I had a lot of fun in my Telvanni stronghold in Morrowind, and having to levitate into the inner chambers really added to the ambiance and made me want to spend more time there.

I hope they leave spatially triggered events in Call of Duty games, and don't rely on them too much here. I also hope they don't pour ALL of their resources into making it a combat-centric game. While focusing on the fighting is good since there is a bit of it in there, for me it's the non-combat activities (and spells) that keep me coming back to a game like this.

Nice ideas

Burden spell could force levitating targets to drop to the ground and die a horrible twitching death?

Good point. Fix jumping first! I mean generally, also PC.

Yes, while paralyze spell / poison can make levitating mage easy prey for marksman's
Successful strike can also have chance to disturb mage channeling spell effect.
There can be collision detection as well, so bumping into obstacle can have similar effect, to compensate AI flaws NPC will not have such penalties.

It isn't gamebreaking. I could choose not to use it. I don't want any more choices taken away just because some people had poor impulse control. I want to be able to play that way if it's what floats my bucket.

If people want to play with / without levitation, if they enjoy / do not enjoy gameplay with less limitations, then what difference the hell does it make in a confirmed SINGLE PLAYER game what other players do.

If levitation is in, cool, I know I'll be having fun with it, and I'm even tempted to send an envelope to Beth studios with 300 bucks cash to make a point. But don't be using the argument of "its cheat mode so no hell no" as if it has any logic to it.

So once again, we have players saying to bethesda that AI which is too stupid to react appropriately is accepable?

Arrows much? heck, find your self a rock and throw it... as for beasts, well in the real world most beasts are smart enought to run away when encountering a threat they can't easily defeat... or is that to hard to code? Srsly :rolleyes:

Exactly.

The only time you have an overpowered mage is when you have a warrior/stealthy character or beast not smart enough or not prepared enough to handle them. And many lower level players/NPCs will not be. Many beasts will not be either. A levitated mage will be a hard counter to a lot of things. If you are a character that is weak to a levitating mage then you just need to be smart enough to buy/steal/make and carry the potions/scrolls/ranged weapons that will counter them.

There are also other considerations to take into account:

- will there be flocks of flying creatures like cliff racers at certain points that would swarm and knock out of the sky anything flying in their territory?
- will burning magicka while levitating be linked to encumbrance guaranteeing anyone levitating will have no armor or be very lightly armored? (making them very susceptible to ranged weapons)
- will non magicka using players (and NPCs) have access to dispell scrolls and ranged attack scrolls that will potentially knock a levitated character out of the sky?
- will low level levitating have balancing weaknesses? (like levitating adds dire weakness to shock damage, etc.)

The only reason I'd like to see levitation is for the dungeon-designing possibilities it afforded. There were some great dungeons in Morrowind with great little out-of-the-way sections of them that were accessible, and sometimes only accessible, by levitation. That was something that was sorely missing from Oblivion.

Beyond that though, I don't much care.

Levitation is a spell that should require "channeling," so that would mean you can't use other spells or weapons, because your character is very busy channeling the spell. So it loses its combat usefulness, unless you levitate to higher ground, but maybe we should have climbing in the game too. Not to mention that levitation is a powerful spell, that only powerful mages can use. Its not like you'd be a level 3 flying everywhere, blasting people from the sky. At most it would be a runaway tactic, better travel, or the standard "jump on stuff" "exploit"

I don't understand why people who don't like a feature say it should be removed. Something like levitate isn't something forced on you. If you don't like it, don't use it. After all, you won't see levitating NPC's to trump you warriors out there, and if you do see them then its implemented properly. Or do people have a problem with how other people play?

Oh, and other class types could use dragon shouts. We know there will be NPC's capable of it.

They should just set every NPCs Marksman skill to 100 and set the AI to only use arrows when they levitate. It'd be hilarious thinking of people trying to abuse levitate and getting DEMOLISHED by NPCs.

Regardless, adding levitation means they'd have to give every character in the game a bow and a bunch of arrows which seems illogical. It's generally an unnecessary spell for game enjoyment beyond the unique architecture/dungeon designs found in Morrowind.

What if levitation was turned into more of a glide spell. That might be kinda cool. Hoping off the highest moutain and gliding down to some point on the map. (there would have to be an appropriately cool animation associated with it).

Edit: Though I guess that turns it into more of a slowfall spell than levitate doesn't it? haha.

Your opinion, not mine. Its single player, get over it that some people like shortcuts.

Im getting really tired of this. There's so many close-minded people here.

A:) It's a single player game.. when it comes down to it theres no OP weapons or spells

B:) If it is such a problem, the spell should be made more mana-intensive so it can't be used on such high levels.

There's no reason not to include levitation.


More power should be given to mage characters if they pursue the opportunity to gain said power. Magic seems like the sort of thing that should be less limited. Become a wizard not a mobile pyro-effect unit.

But they need to balance the game in a way that makes you want to play different types of characters. Sure, if there is some OP weapon or ability it's alright as long as there are equally OP weapons or abilities for other classes. Levitate is different, it essentially gives you free reign to do what you want without having to worry about enemies (except fliers) too much and was only available to mages. I would not equate levitate with other ideas of OP things. It wasn't a huge issue in Morrowind because there were many (legitimate) ways to break the game if you wanted to and it wasn't limited to Mages. If levitate was in Oblivion it would have completely unbalanced playing different classes

Aparantly not, as this thread has hit 8 pages...

No. Pure Mages are weak and frail by nature since the majority of your skill points go into magical attacks, and intelligence/willpower. If some massive nord comes up to you and tries to strike you with a warhammer, then naturally you should use levitation as a method of countering his attacks. He's stronger and tougher then you, so you use your magical ability to defeat him in whatever way possible. Thats what a balanced game is.

"This guy is going to smash me into a pulp because he is tougher than me, so Im going to levitate to escape his reach because I have magical ability"

Levitation was a bit OP yes, but that's because it was way too easy to cast and the effect lasted for too long. If that's changed and levitation becomes a more expensive spell, then it'll limit it's uses to quick escapes/mounting high objects.. which is what it should be used for.



As much as a love Oblivion, Oblivion is an extremely unbalanced game.

It was bad game-play design from the start.

You are misrepresenting the power of Mages. So what if some puny Nord runs at you? You can cast a shield spell to render his attacks insignificant then melt his face off with fire. Maybe you'll disappear in the blink of an eye and strike him down with lighting from afar. The mage gives up hit points for magical protection and pure damage. Giving him the ability to float out of reach and cast spell after spell with ease is not necessary, and quite overpowered.

Yes, you can change the way levitation works, sure. I was speaking to the spell as it existed in prior cases. If you make the character unable to cast other spells or use weapons while levitating I have no real issue with it.

Oblivion was very well balanced between classes. The issue is that Oblivions leveling system 'overall' was broken. This is an irrelevant point though

No.. for a pure mage to be truly effective they should have spent more time investing and training their skills. it requires more work to be mage, so logically, for the purposes of balance they should have a higher combat output. If your opponent is an archer they should have no difficulty shooting at you while you are floating. If they are limited to close range attack, then they should leave the vicinity until you float back down, these are all things an intelligent opponent would do..

The problem with levitation in Morrowind is any asshat with a bit of alternation knowledge could perform it, and the AI wasn't smart enough to counter it.

Wut? It does not require more work to be a mage. Basically all a Mage really needs is Destruction and all a Warrior really needs is a combat skill. You can fill out other skills as you see fit with Armor skills or Alteration or Illusion, etc. Mages have higher damage output and Warriors have higher health. Levitation allows a magic class to negate any advantages of a Warrior class and thus unbalances the game.

Clearly you are thinking on a lower plane. A pure mage will generally fill up all slots with all the magical arts, and will have little room for anything else which may indirectly aid them. To be competent at anything they will need to train all of their magical skills so they can make the best use of them in any scenario. A fighter's objective is to get up close to the mage and beat them with braun, a mage's objective is to inhibit the fighter in whatever way possible.

Rule of thumb: if anything is "OP" or unbalanced then the game has not been designed properly, you should always be using everything at your disposal.. you are saving the world after all.. If enemies are intelligent and combat is balanced, then levitation will never be a problem.

Mysticism isn't used enough? Remove it? NO. Levitation is overpowered &/or unbalanced? Remove it? NO, dummy. The answer is not "remove it" it's "fix it"

This is called a flaw...

Mages can be a "universal" class because they can do almost anything. Because of that great power, they should be required to train more.

And the way the shield spells work svcks, they hardly help unless enchanted into something or its a really high spell. You have to take into account the time required to change spells, using a shield spell requires switching between spells, which takes time. Mages run slowly, so they can't run away to gain more time. The same logic applies to levitation, if a mage doesn't immediately levitate away, then the mage might cast it too late.

And warriors can target mages, its called Thu'um, and there are NPC's that can do it...
Saying a warrior is at a disadvantage against a levitating mage is lie saying they are at a disadvantage against dragons. As long as they balance levitation better, such as requiring it be channeled rather than a set duration or a much higher magicka cost, it doesn't disadvantage anyone.

EDIT: Mysticism was never redundant. Detect spells don't manipulate anyones perception, they magically detect something. Absorb spells don't fit into restoration anymore than they fit in destruction. Reflect doesn't fit into alteration at all, you aren't altering the state of something, such as movement and velocity, unless you argue you can apply alteration physical interaction to spells which you shouldn't since magic isn't physical.

As I said afore, you are misconstruing the issue. Yes, Mages take multiple magic skills into consideration, so do Warriors. Warriors generally take armor skills, maybe blocking, athletics, armorer, etc. etc. Mages take no more work than Warriors.

I did not say levitation can't exist, I just said it should not exist in the form that it existed in Morrowind (i.e. being able to attack or cast spells during flight).

Mysticism needed to be removed. This is not really a matter of contention. As Todd himself said, the magical school of mysticism is slightly redundant (although not to the degree he was insinuating). Most of it's spells belonged in other schools anyway (technically they were all Alteration abilities with the exception of detect which could arguably be put into illusion).