Levitation Denied (?)

Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:14 am

Oh yeah, cause levitation was the only easy mode option; conjuration&invisibilty, chameleon100%, reflectdamage&magic100%, paralyze 1sec, etc.
It's a single player game, I can play how ever I feel. I don't like fighting all the time, even without levitation I'm still going to go invisible and walk past my problems. :shrug: I'm the shaper of my experience&narrative if I want to be cheap, I can.

Regardless of the balance issues (which are easily dealt with) I bet levitation isn't in due to BGS being incapable of fighting a levitation animation that isn't completely ridiculous, or they are lazy.
Chameleon 100% requires you're illusion to be maxed and reflect damage 100% requires the same of mysticism. Paralize for 1 second doesn't make the enemy go away, it just knocks them down. Also, none of these spells can be used to beat the game in 15 minutes, check this s**t out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfNbPQJ5Fdc
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:08 pm

I'm a Mage why do I have to see the would as some pitiful warrior or rouge. I can change the composition of matter, manipulate the forces of nature, rip holes in the very fabric of reality to pull demons from an alternate plane, I can control the minds of others, manifest nightmares; yet I'm forced to drudge around the snow like the average layman.


I'm glad if levitation makes it in the game. In a high-magic/high-power world, though the use of magic is frequent, mages should not be easily overcome by other classes; this just undermines the power of the wizard which should inherently be one of the most feared figures in such a world. However, in fairness, becoming a powerful mage should also be a much more strenous and demanding task, involving various of the players' faculties not just the mindless repetition of tasks.

*levitates* MAHAHAAA svckaas!!111 Try and get me now....
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John N
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:22 am

Seconded



It was never broken (a spell like 100% Chameleon in Oblivion was broken).

My opinion:
Omitting levitation has only one reason: the need for closed cities (i.e. set into their own world space). It implies the Skyrim engine does not handle faraway objects well (no doubt a console limitation: years-old engines like FarCry could already deal with it perfectly).


Is the Far Cry engine the same as Crysis one? 'Cause man, that game had some insanely big areas. Not to mention that more or less everything shy of solid rock was destructible.

OP: I wont miss Levitate. It made the already awkward morrowind way of walking feel even more awkward, which kinda broke it for me.
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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:20 pm

Chameleon 100% requires you're illusion to be maxed and reflect damage 100% requires the same of mysticism. Paralize for 1 second doesn't make the enemy go away, it just knocks them down. Also, none of these spells can be used to beat the game in 15 minutes, check this s**t out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfNbPQJ5Fdc

I could do the same thing with fortify speed, it also requires you know where to go. How many people after there second play through went straight to the sword of white woe, stole/bought some scrolls, killed Umbra and then started playing.
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Kayla Oatney
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:46 am

I could do the same thing with fortify speed, it also requires you know where to go. How many people after there second play through went straight to the sword of white woe, stole/bought some scrolls, killed Umbra and then started playing.
lol, no, you can't go over all the mountains with just fortify speed.
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Chris Duncan
 
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Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:24 pm

lol, no, you can't go over all the mountains with just fortify speed.

Yeah you can I did a speed run in 25min no levitation. (Used the soul trap spell glitch)

Not over the mountains, but certainly snaked them in a hurry.

Edit: Speed runs svck cause Dagoth Ur doesn't say "Come Moon-and-Star..." that part gets me everytime.
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:17 am

I'm fine without levitation.


Me too. It's not gonna be in guys, so just plan for that.
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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:28 am

Me too. It's not gonna be in guys, so just plan for that.


Im still hoping its in.
Its used as a plot device in Infernal city, after all.

If its not I will be thoroughly dissapointed.
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:23 am

This has been discussed plenty of times before and the broken record is starting to annoy me a bit.
Levitation was never overpowered.
Levitation does not need tweaking.
(Im not including comprehensive arguments for the millionth time)

All that it needs is NPC AI being able to deal with it.

Agreed.

It's like Todd is all "huh, this feature didn't work in the past. I know! I'll just scrap it instead of reworking it to fix the issues it had!" Same with spellmaking, same with birthsigns, same with spears, same with mysticism... Same old story over and over.
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alyssa ALYSSA
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:43 am

After seeing that video I'm against the inclusion of levitation.
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:55 am

After seeing that video I'm against the inclusion of levitation.

That's is dumb, the video involved ambushing a barter glitch and also the fortified skill effect. Even if levitation was in Oblivion you wouldn't be able to speed run it due to the nature of the MQ, and that MQ items aren't available from the get go, I doubt the MQ of Skyrim will be different.
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Amelia Pritchard
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:40 am

If just you actually levitate instead of fly with it ...
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helen buchan
 
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Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:43 pm

The arguments I have read against levitation are pretty lame so far:

- why have it when you can have archers shoot you or dragons gobble you up mid air? - Really? Really? No.....Really? Just the thought of the risk of being attacked by a dragon while I am meandering up in the clouds makes me want levitation even more! I am salivating just thinking of the opportunity to get into a battle where I spar with lightning bolts up in the clouds with another mage. How freaking awesome would that be!?

- I don't like it so it should not be in - I don't like heavy armored characters. Wouldn't it be foolish of me to sit here and pontificate against the inclusion of heavy armored options in Skyrim for no other reason than I don't care for it?

- it is overpowered - as has been repeated ad nauseam, all you need is AI capable of dealing with it.

- it will ruin my mountain climbing adventures - Really? How? While not having it will certainly ruin my flying-over-mountains-while-laughing-at-the-poor-schmucks-that-can't adventures I am really at a loss as to how having an option available for potential use can possibly ruin anyone's adventures.

- it impacts scaling - the only scaling here involves the limits of the minds involved

- fast travel negates levitation - uhh, unless you have a glitch that allows you to fast travel into the clouds I think this argument may be a little off...


It all comes down to one thing: the devs are smart enough to work in AI that can handle levitation or they are not. They are smart enough to develop a balanced magic system that includes spells that are already a part of the TES world (so including levitation would make a world more like TES, not more like dragonball z) or they are not. I think they are and am confident that they will give us an amazing world to explore that we will be able to visit from the top of the clouds to the bottom of the ocean.
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REVLUTIN
 
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Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:27 pm

The problem isn't overpower (make it so you need both hands to cast, use other weapons or spells if your hands are full)

The problem is how obsessive BGS is about animation and making everything fluid. They are thinking about not making horses ridable, because the feel was clunky. My guess is they can't find a way to animate it correctly.

@admoni All the anti-levitation are weak or hardly objective , but that's the nature of forums.
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Multi Multi
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:16 am

Agreed.

It's like Todd is all "huh, this feature didn't work in the past. I know! I'll just scrap it instead of reworking it to fix the issues it had!" Same with spellmaking, same with birthsigns, same with spears, same with mysticism... Same old story over and over.


While I'm definitely with you on the whole simplification train, it is best to know that some things didn't work/were redundant. Plus part of me wants them to experiment with the newer, more exciting stuff than we've never seen before in an Elder Scrolls game rather than spend time on something that wouldn't even tarnish the game's playability that we've seen a hundred times when we've started up any game of the series.
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:15 am

I only want levitation if:

- It has floaty movement.

- Appropriate animation.

- No speedy superman flying.

- It's a powerful spell, maybe even gained with perks.

- NPCs use it too.

Like horses I don't think they need to include it if it's too clunky or glitchy. It wouldn't go with the feel of the game IMO.
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Tom
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:46 am

Levitation would be amazing for Skyrim, IF properly balanced.


It could even be a Dragon Shout. I mean, the dragons can fly, really powerful characters should at least be able to hover a few feet heh, even the odds a bit.

I kind of wish Todd hadn't been so flippant about it, but it was a long interview, and he divulged a lot of information.
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GLOW...
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:14 pm

Agreed.

It's like Todd is all "huh, this feature didn't work in the past. I know! I'll just scrap it instead of reworking it to fix the issues it had!" Same with spellmaking, same with birthsigns, same with spears, same with mysticism... Same old story over and over.


Todd must face his fears and fix the issues, this he must do, haha. Like Luke taking on his father, or is it himself, AH!
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Victoria Bartel
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:42 am

In a single player game I don't really see the point of not including something for "balance" I mean you can use it or not, so how would levitation be any worse than fast travel?
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:14 am

Todd didn't deny levitation. He was only joking around. It could still be in Skyrim.


It doesn't look likely to me. The way he worded the question sounded like a snarky way to say "no" to me, if it were in, he would say yes, after all, it's clear a certain segment of the fanbase wants it, so why not tell them what they want to hear? Unless doing so would be lying, of course, alternately, if it was in, but for some reason or another, they were not ready to talk about it, then he would have said "We're not ready to talk about that yet." or something vague that doesn't really answer the question like "What do you think?" or something, with the comment about DLC, what it sounds like to me is basically "no", just with a joke involved.

In a single player game I don't really see the point of not including something for "balance" I mean you can use it or not, so how would levitation be any worse than fast travel?


I'd argue that fast travel doesn't effect game balance at all, it just gives you a quicker way to get to places, it doesn't really make the game any easier in the sense that it allows you to kill enemies more quickly or give you more health or anything, and as fast travel works in Oblivion, you need to visit a location before traveling there, and based on what we've heard, Skyrim's system sounds the same, and if you've gone to a place once, chances are you can make it there again, and even if you say fast travel DOES have an impact on game balance, I'd argue that it balances itself out as when you fast travel somewhere, you miss out on things you might have otherwise seen on the way there, potentially losing an oportunity to find powerful items or something else useful. And really, if your going to use that argument, you might as well say Bethesda should add a spell that requires no skill to cast, has only one point of magicka cost, and instantly kills every enemy in the current cell while leaving friendly or neutral characters unharmed, regardless of how much health they have, after all, you can just not choose to use it, right?

And there are also people complaining about fast travel too, though not necessarily based on balance, so it's not like comparing it to fast travel will necessarily change anyone's mind.

Now, I'm not arguing against levitation, I'm simply saying that "It's a single player game, it doesn't need to be balanced" or comparing it to fast travel isn't really a good way to counter the arguments against it. I actually want levitation myself, I just don't feel that particular argument is a a persuasive one on the matter.

And in regards to the "Don't like it, don't use it." argument, that actually wouldn't work for levitation if it was done like in Morrowind, because in that game, there were certain places which required levitation to access, you might have liked this, or maybe you didn't, I did like it myself, but even those who did not would not have been able to just not use levitation.

In my case, I'm in favor of levitation, obviously, it's not something I start every game expecting to see, but having it allows for some creative environment design that just can't be done in a game where you're mostly bound to movement along a single plain, baring hills and stairs, of course. things like the Telvanni towers, the Ministry of Truth, or the many hidden alcoves with items on them only accessable by levitation in Morrowind's dungeons all couldn't be done in Oblivion, I guess for some of thse cases, you could also do teleporters like the ones that occassionally showed up in Oblivion towers, but it just doesn't quite feel the same when you're dealing with something that basically behaves like a cell transition door. And if cities truly are seamless, then they've removed the main justification for levitation not being in Oblivion. Now, Oblivion did have some places where using levitation could allow you to break the intended sequence for exploring places, but after exploring many Oblivion gates, I'd actually say being able to just levitate over the insurmountable barrers that tend to force you to use long, roundabout routes to get through them a good thing, even if some might call it "cheating", and if you really want to force people to follow a specific sequence for exploring areas, which seems to pretty much conflict with the premise of an open world game to me, then you can always keep the presence of levitation in mind when doing this and design things that still work with it, like say, don't have the lowest level of a dungeon have an alternate exit located in a place you can't walk to, but could easily be reached with levitation, as many dungeons in Oblivion did.

As far as supposed balance issues with levitation, if it had any problems in that regard in past games, they came from its implementation, which CAN be changed, you know. Mostly, the problem was the AI, since enemies didn't know what to do if you levitated to a place where they couldn't hit you, just make them respond more intelligently to the player levitating, and the problem is fixed, besides, it's not like Oblivion didn't have any unbalancing spells *cough* 100% chameleon *cough*, it seems pretty hypocritical to defend the choice to remove levitation using game balance and not even mention that.
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Krystina Proietti
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:34 pm

Yeah, come to think of it I can't see how it could be worse than 100% chameleon. Levitation just gives players the option of breaking some areas of the game (while missing out on loot) - chameleon breaks everything (though maybe it's not as much of a time saver :P).

I can see why they wouldn't want to add it though. Levitation seems to demand a lot time and effort for just one spell. And they probably want to make the game fair for everyone so people without levitation don't feel shafted.
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X(S.a.R.a.H)X
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 am

I don't think we will ever see levitation again. :(
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jodie
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:51 am

If levitation isn't in I hope some wonderful modder implements it in a functional(non-gamebreaking) manner.
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Agnieszka Bak
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:37 am

Yeah, come to think of it I can't see how it could be worse than 100% chameleon. Levitation just gives players the option of breaking some areas of the game (while missing out on loot) - chameleon breaks everything (though maybe it's not as much of a time saver :P).

I can see why they wouldn't want to add it though. Levitation seems to demand a lot time and effort for just one spell. And they probably want to make the game fair for everyone so people without levitation don't feel shafted.

Unless you're a jack-of-all-trades, your character is supposed to be specialized. Want Levitation? Then you have to specialize for it. I think that keeps the game balanced. Or if you mean it's unbalanced for when you have to fight characters who levitate, it could just be certain powerful characters, and it wouldn't be worse than fighting a dragon.
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:25 am

In a single player game I don't really see the point of not including something for "balance" I mean you can use it or not, so how would levitation be any worse than fast travel?

My View as well.
If they felt it was important it will be included.
I seem to remember in Morrowind the beast races were originally not going to be included as playable until an online petition forced the change.

Anyway. If Levitation has to be gimped, there are a number of ways it can be done:
1. Height limit, can not levitate past a certain point.
2. Environmental Damage/Wind effects - Get buffeted around by the wind, slammed into mountains, blown off course or just freeze ala Iron Man.
3. Give some/most of the enemies a workaround - all Ranged attacks (that can't be blocked easily on account of you not being able to position shield)
- an anti-levitation option (lasoo, or spell/power to disable it)

More importantly though, as a single player game, some people will abuse the levitate option, but it is all down to willpower
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Kay O'Hara
 
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