I doubt it is just you. Currently we are working on new content as well as updates of previous releases. However none of the projects are ready for release at this time. We are not in the habit of (and have no inclination for) maintaining a work-in-progress thread. This may give the impression that we are no longer active. It makes no difference if people think so. We will update when we are satisfied a mod is completed and dispel (at least for awhile) the impression that the project is dead.


The progress page of our website is maintained by a non-active member so it is not convenient to update it regularly. We will update it when our current project town (Ebonheart) is released. Another progress page is maintained for internal use, but I will not release a link to it. We also have a private forum for our members. As I wrote before, we do make work-in-progress announcements. Time spent writing about our progress is time not spent making further progress. Such discussions distract and interfere with the creative process. I understand that many in the community might like to read about what we are doing if only for the assurance that we are still active. The proof will be in our next release - and that day will come sooner if we do not have to spend our limited resources discussing it.


Nothing is needed - we have writers, scripters and construction set jockeys. If we required new models and textures we would solicit help.


Such business is usually conducted privately. However we have such a backlog of work on existing projects that we are not going to start a new project at this time. It is unfair to the writers that have work that is ready for editing, scripting and testing to turn our attention to another town. In fact it was probably a mistake beginning Ebonheart before we had checked a few more items off of our list.

Our highest priority is maintaining the mods we have already released. The sooner we resolve all of the bugs in our existing installments the more time we will have for creating new content. It is difficult to estimate the amount of time spent chasing down the bugs that frustrate our users, but perhaps half of our energy is spent maintaining our mods. However this effort pays dividends. Two years ago the percentage of our efforts was much higher. To have someone investigate a conflict between LGNPC Tel Uvirith and The Rise of House Telvanni would likely shut us down for weeks given no details of the nature of the conflict and having little or no knowledge of how either mod was created. Until it is verified that a problem exists we will invest our resources elsewhere.

Many of our users are annoyed by spelling and grammatical errors in our work so we are engaged in a massive editing effort to identify and eliminate those errors. It was thought at one time this would not be necessary since substantive updates of the earlier installments would take care of that matter. However such updates have excited responses covering the spectrum from indifference to anxiety so we are suspending progress on Gnaar Mok, Ald Velothi, Hla Oad and Ald'ruhn, and other updates will not be initiated. This renews the importance of editing of those original mods.

We offer no details or timeline for our next release except that it will be a multiple release when it happens.


Edit: Forgot this one...


Am I to understand that you want to perform LGNPC Vivec Redoran quests involving Toris Saren and than assassinate him - cold-blooded, dude!

The official greetings concerning the Morag Tong quest are above the new LGNPC greetings so the alarm is raised. However they (official entries) are filtered for the journal index of the Morag Tong quest. You can open the console by pressing the tithe '~' key and type:

SetJournalIndex MT_WritSaren 0

This prevents the official entries from being displayed. However I did not dig very deep (partially because it is not clear what you are trying to accomplish) so there may be side topics that will still create issues. After you have used the Saren family and household for your own selfish reasons you must change the journal index back to advance the Morag Tong quest:

SetJournalIndex MT_WritSaren 10

There may be consequences to killing Toris Saren even following this plan. Some LGNPC dialog will check for Toris Saren living. Since nothing happens in Morrowind that is not a result of the player's actions you will likely be condemned for his death and perhaps even expelled from House Redoran. If it is your first offence your standing in the House can be restored (after completing a quest if you are running Pax Redoran).

I just happened to check your site for updates the other day and found all these.

Might I ask why Ald Ruhn has been split up?

The bundle pack in your website also includes "LGNPC_NoLore_v0.83.esp" and it says that is should be used "in conjunction with LGNPC NoLore-ready mods to give NPC's noLore responces without noLore filtering. Also provides generic responses filtered for Khajiit."

So, from what I understand, this mod is different from UUMP's NoLore fix, right? And I can use this and UUMP together without any problems?

I use it with both and haven't had any problems that I've noticed. It removes most of the topics from NPCs that shouldn't have them, so finding people at times can be a bit tricky. All in all, I like it.

I'm not sure whether it was already mentioned or not, but I just stumbled on it: in Pax Redoran, Garding's greetings are redone so that on Arena he only gives right answer if he was placed there by JO_BeroSupport quest (Hlaalu Hortator). If player got the challenge during regular HH_BeroSupport quest, his proper greetings ("Enough %PCName. You beat me fairly..." etc.) are shadowed by LGNPC greeting "Dram is inside there, %PCName" or "I'm Garding the Bold, Dram Bero's bodyguard". Setting the cell condition for these two should solve the problem.

Hi Cyrano- I haven't experienced a conflict, just noticed in the readme for RoHT where it says:



So just wanted to make sure there wasn't a conflict as I'd like to use both mods together..

I knew that unfortunate typo would create some trouble... :sigh: Please disregard that line: RoHT is compatible with LGNPC Tel Uvirith v1.20. The conflict was with v1.10 and earlier. I'll correct the readme file for the next version.

Sorry for the delay - I had been grappling with some issues. Believe me when I say it is better that I did not post two days ago.

@BTB: As explained in the original post to this thread and the mod's readme, the Ald'ruhn supplement was intended to be the first stage in the re-writing of LGNPC Ald'ruhn. Although we could have waited until the entire town was complete we thought it would be wise to gauge the community's interest in such an undertaking before we invested too much time into it. The supplement adds dialog for twelve NPCs and five quests that replaces the dialog in the original Ald'ruhn plug-in.

@Judassem: With the exception to the 'Nerevarine' greeting, LGNPC NoLore is perfectly compatible with the Unofficial Morrowind Patch/Morrowind Patch Project. The two greetings that in our opinion Bethesda intended to have filtered for the class 'pauper' is the only instance of official dialog entries being altered. If the patches make changes to these same entries then we will overwrite those changes. In retrospect I think we should have added a check for Talked to PC, and that might be considered in an update. There is not harm using LGNPC NoLore without those two mods that are filtered for it (and there is no harm in running LGNPC Khuul and Foreign Quarter without it). The player just will not utilize all of the dialog offering in LGNPC NoLore. The Khajiit responses will be available in any case.

@Kir: Thank you for the catch. I am recommending that we move the LGNPC greetings below the official greetings filtered for Garding. Those entries are very narrowly filtered for the official quest so they will not interfere with the LGNPC quest if they are above ours.

@Darkflame: Thank you for the clarification, but Bjorn confirmed my suspicions before I could post them. It seems it is safe (as far as any of us know).

Ok, I think I see what you mean.

I didn't quite pick up from the readme that it was intended as a rewrite.

Nice to see you guys are still working, I have a suggestion; theres almost always a barbarian type character near daedric ruins whos got little dialogue and usually gets hit by one of my area spell effects and joins in the fun with a daedroth or some other nasty, could it be possible to add some sort of quest to these guys so they actually have a reason to be there? I mean it could be as easy as they want to whack some npc inside but they are too weak or whatever or they might one an item from inside, just adding some reason for those idiots to be there

As mentioned, I am hugely looking forward to Ebonheart. There aren't many major mods that impact Ebonheart, but one that does make changes is the Ebonheart Interior Expansion--it adds councilor NPCs from various great houses, and changes a little bit of dialogue here and there. Would that necessarily conflict with an LGNPC release? It shouldnt', right, because the dialogue strings of one mod shouldn't really affect another, yeah?

Great mod overall, I love the feel it provides and new life it adds to the game. However, I have run into a few things I believe is caused by LGNPC specifically, and did not see it scrolling through the last few pages of this thread (or elsewhere, but I may have missed it mentioned).

1) Dandera Selaro no longer sells Domina (from LeFemm) or Adamantium Armor with LGNPC Ald'ruhn active. My first thought was that it might be a load order issue, but then I noticed she is also no longer selling the regular bonemold armor that is part of her vanilla stock (including the two pieces on the crate right next to her), only her weapon supply. I have not gone around checking if merchants in other towns were missing their stock, though the rest of the ones in the nearby houses (pawnbroker, bookseller, general merchant) and Under-Skar appeared to have what they normally carry as expected (though I am not positive about the Enchanter, he had the items on the tables, but I cannot recall whether he had his randomized leveled items as well or not).

2) In Ald'ruhn, all LGNPC affected characters refuse to say any Latest Rumors besides their newly added ones. This might not seem like a big deal, but it prevents them from talking about "I heard what you did for Ienas Sarandas" giving the extra disposition boost. I have not applied the LGNPC-NoLore esp yet though, so not certain if that is something fixed by it, or an issue above and beyond. I don't think this is much of an issue in other towns affected by LGNPC so far, as I only really recall the disposition boost-dialogue being used in Caldera and Balmora after completing other specific quests.

@Carbon: Certainly it is possible, but it would be a very low priority for us. You should not depend upon seeing anything like that from us for at least two years.

@Lady Nibenay: Whether or not LGNPC Ebonheart will conflict with Ebonheart Interior Expansion depends on the nature of the changes the latter makes. New NPCs are not an issue. New dialog for existing NPCs could be. If Ebonheart Interior Expansion adds new entries for the generic official topics then it will depend on where the insertions are made and possibly load order. If you require some assurance at this time you might check Llerar Mandas. Pax Redoran adds considerable dialog and quests for this member of the Grand Council.

@HandofBane: We are gratified that you are enjoying our work.

1) Without checking on how Dandera Selaro provides the additional armor it is certainly possible that LGNPC Ald'ruhn breaks this functionality. That mod is the only remaining town for whom its NPCs have not been cleaned of the noLore script that the early installments liberally added. If adding that script is responsible for the problem you have encountered, then other mods that add scripts to official NPCs or make other changes to them (such as with Fashionable Merchants) that would supplant the changes made by any mod that loads earlier will likely have the same result. Merged Objects might resolve the problem if that is the case.

2) Yes. The way that LGNPC Ald'ruhn and many other LGNPC installments were created prevents NPCs from utilizing official rumors, secrets, advice, etc. This can be more than an inconvenience - it can break official quests. It was one of the benefits of our removing the noLore script added in earlier LGNPC installments. In some instances our writers did not provide a new rumor or secret to an NPC and they would have used the official dialog except for the noLore filtered we added. Again, Ald'ruhn is the last town that suffers from this issue.


Certainly we could clean LGNPC Ald'ruhn just as we did other installments, but we have been dragging our feet. It is a very large mod with over one hundred NPCs affected. It may not be appropriate to clean some NPCs because of quests or dialog filters that depend on the changes that were made. Moreover, this would still leave the majority of NPCs still using their LGNPC rumors and secrets thereby blocking the official entries from display.

The version 2 LGNPC mods (the Foreign Quarter and Khuul, as will Ebonheart) address this issue by filtering holes in the new entries that leave the possibility of the official rumors, etc. being used. It was hoped that this treatment would be applied to Ald'ruhn and other towns as they are updated. The Ald'ruhn supplement was the beginning of that effort. Besides adding expanded compatibility with Children of Morrowind and LGNPC NoLore readiness, we began removing scripts and generally cleaning that mod of conflicts.

Unfortunately that effort has been discontinued. The 'significant' updating of earlier LGNPC installments has raised strong concerns from the community about respecting the original writers' work. Progress on the Ald'ruhn supplement as well as Ald Velothi, Gnaar Mok and Hla Oad has been halted. The indifferent reception of these updates makes it a little easier to shelve future releases, but it does not make us feel any better about the alternative. We were hoping to address the problems identified (including editing for content and typos) as each town was updated. Now these efforts need to be completed without altering the original vision of the project's writers.

Proofreading all of our dialog has begun, but it is an enormous undertaking. The initial effort did not catch all of the errors so each installment will undergo a second editing effort. Gnaar Mok required approximately ten hours of work shared by two people. Regrettably the quality of the writing is still rather poor, but at least now it is in perfect English! An early approximation budgeted around two hundred hours for this task, but now it appears that it will take much longer than that. Certainly we will continue to provide support for our mods, but work on other projects is mostly suspended until we can put this behind us.


Edit: typo... irony, isn't it delicious?

Wait. What? Who? When? Shorely, the original author's intention wasn't to break vanilla quests? Where was this "indifferent reception"? Who "raised strong concerns"? I certainly haven't seen any of that here. I guess, then, it's some comments at the LGNPC forums...?

Whilst I respect the Morrowind community's collective decision to respect the wishes of mod authors (bending over backwards to double-check if something released as a resource can be used as a resource etc.) I think that this can go too far, like here.

Was the problem that HandOfBane describes really "the original vision of the project's writers"? Was their intention to supplant and overwrite vanilla Morrowind dialogue and so break the game? Or was it just the way that they originally implemented things and, having had such issues pointed out to them, they would be perfectly cool with fixing them?

I love this mod series, it's one of the best things that's ever happened to Morrowind (what MGE does for the surface, LGNPC does for the soul). I'm really surprised and disappointed by this post (not the person who wrote it, one of the pillars of our community). The LGNPC series should be building a http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html.

I agree. I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate LGNPC, and isn't looking forward to any and all new updates. What we want is the best LGNPC experience possible--not doomed fidelity to writing that can be improved upon. Don't feel like you guys need to stop updating.

...but Ebonheart first.

Make us three, your work with LGNPC is awesome! Can't wait for new updates! :woot:

If the previous work interferes with official dialog, then by all means fix it. While I can respect the decision to stay as true to the original authors' content, the project as a whole shouldn't suffer for it. I would also add my voice to those that enjoy this series of mods and would most certainly like to see an updated/fixed version. In that regards, I used to be a technical writer and am willing to volunteer as an editor should you need another one.

Ditto.

Ditto-ing Dragon32's post.

Honestly, I'm shocked. What happened? :confused:

I to would be very disappointed if supposed concerns regarding updates to previous LGNPC projects were to interfere with what has long been one of the most popular & useful mod series in TES3.

Perhaps some further clarification of what constitutes 'significant' updating & respecting the original writers' work wrt LGNPC is in order?

As one of the plethora of authors on the original Ald'ruhn, I would point out that the LGNPC editors/compilers of that period had no qualms about editing peoples work with or without their permission, and outright rejected submissions which weren't of a sufficient standard. My submissions didn't employ the NoLore script for example, because as you suggest I wanted access to the vanilla rumours etc, but it certainly had said script attached when released (along with a couple of typo fixes which were rather more welcome).

Without access to the unadvlterated original submissions how would one determine if you were altering the original authors interpretation or that of the LGNPC editors? Either way the people involved knowingly contributed to a collective work, which implicitly requires the acceptance of some editorial oversight in order to bring the various elements together.

I would therefore suggest that fixing bugs, typos & grammatical errors constitutes neither a significant update or disrespect of the original authors work.

Completely changing the tone/style/backstory of original writers may be more questionable, but I don't recall any complaints regarding Wrye's rewrite of the original?

As to the 'indifferent reception of these updates', I'm quite sure you've been around long enough to know that 90% of your users happily download & use your mods without saying a word - including me.

Well, I suppose I could throw in my two cents, here...

The biggest problem I have with the Ald Ruhn rewrite is that it's not exactly clear what the supplement does unless you have at least a rudimentary understanding of how the system works, which the vast majority of users lack. Hell, even after asking for clarification here and getting a response, I'm still certain about the finer details of what's going on. Posing the update as a supplement rather than an alternative is something of an indication that the LGNPC team still isn't 100% sure about which direction they're going to head, and I'm one of those people that likes to wait until a direction is firmly decided and the path fair well-beaten before heading down it.

With regards to "respect for the work of others", my stance is that I have never let it interfere with progress. If anything, allowing their work to become roadblocks by refusing to edit them where necessary seems more disrespectful in my opinion than anything. The mod list I maintain on my site is a very good example of this thinking in action, as I have several personally-edited versions of other mods that fix "problems" I had with otherwise-quality work.

In summary, my advice is to keep doing what you guys do best. Keep working on the LGNPC project. Keep working on bringing it to every settlement in the game. Keep working on making your existing plugins as conflict-less and bug-free as possible, no matter what that means doing to them. And above all else, explain any intentions you may have as explicitly and as simply as possible. Remember that not everybody who takes the time to download this stuff is going to take the time to learn as much about it as everybody in this thread clearly knows. Assume when detailing any new changes - especially in extreme cases like the Ald Ruhn supplement - that you are speaking to a complete idiot. It really helps. Trust me.

Is Less Generic Nerevarine compatible with Pax Redoran? The two mods show up with a red highlight in Wrye Mash.

A lot of the individual LGNPC mods conflict with one another. This is because a lot of them have the same data in them, so it's not necessarily a problem.

I will offer a tentative 'yes'. The reason for Mash's response is likely for the reason BTB offered. I have not compared the currently released form of Less Generic Nerevarine to Pax Redoran, but in a very early alpha the former not only shared dialog in common many (most) of those instances had the same info-ID. This concerned me about how the dialog database could be scrambled when these two mods are used together.

It is the degree of shared content that has caused us to drag our feet on testing LGNPC Nerevarine. I had early settled that we might copy and delete every questionable original (less generic) entry in order to assign to it a unique info-ID. However that is not the only issue to be reconciled. One consideration is to make a unified Pax Redoran/Nerevarine mod, but undoubtedly there will be objections from players who resent being forced to use both when they want only the one.

Anyway... I think it will be fine.

On an entirely unrelated issue, cyran0, I noticed during a new playthrough I'm attempting (I say "attempting" because I never get more than a few hours in before stopping to mod again), and I noticed that Foryn Gilnith (the guy who killed the tax collector) is unusually cheery when he greets you with the standard NPC dialogue before reverting into a complete [censored] when you try to ask him anything else. Why is that?