This is why your creator gave you free choice, and I'd prefer to keep my choice than have other people steal it from me because they can't handle the responsibility of making their own.

You're assuming that I exploit the game to kingdom come. I dont, TES is an rpg so I play as my character. And when my character learns how to make a spell a god would love to have, its not like the character would pretend such a spell doesn't exist. That character would make full use of the spell, because the character would want to be as strong as possible. I shouldn't have to step out of my character in order for exploits to not be used.

Should firing an arrow into a person be like hitting them with a bolt of lightning? No, hitting them with an arrow should cause the npc to react in a believable manner. Getting hit with a lightning bolt should cause the npc to react like they just got shocked by a bolt of lightning. Should a archer at level 50 with the best gear available be just as strong as a mage at level 50 who is using the best gear possible? I dont see why it should be any other way.

Should npc's know how to attack someone who can't be reached because they're on a rock? Yes. Should the player have to avoid jumping on rocks as to not abuse the system? No. Any archer with a lick of sense would attack from the high ground where it would be hard for the enemy to get to them.


Changing the difficulty doens't make npc's smarter. If it did I would agree with you that I have the tools to balance the game myself. As it stands, I dont.

Why would you want to play a game in the first place if that's what you think about unbalanced stuff and the god mode without cheats etc? Why not just give the players a giant axe in the end of the tutorial that will kill everything with the first hit and as long as it is equipped you cannot die? That's basically the same thing, it ruins the whole point of the game and ruins everything the developers have done for the game with all the combat, all the challenges etc. It just flats it all out, the developers could have just straight away given everything in the game 1 hp and you unlimited because gamers like you wouldn't bother playing the game as it should be played. Yeah it's a single player game, so what? Same things apply for them as multi-player games.

And changing the games difficulty doesn't matter, with OBs exploits you could run around at the hardest difficulty and be a god. If that is true, why haven't anyone else done that? NPCs were there before you, they had time to get geared up with reflect and absorb and resist stuff. It's unbalanced to be too powerful. If Skyrim has similar exploits in the game like OB had, I'm just going to play Dark Souls and hope that doesn't have similar exploits as Demon's Souls had. Feel free to mod your game into your liking, just make the vanilla game what it should be, an adventure where you can be whoever you want and not favouring any specific play style and definitely not allow us to become gods. That'd make the Alduin battle pretty boring.

So you just can't control yourself. Your character simply can't turn away from his horribly overpowered skill/ability they sumled on. And yet you started your whole thought out with "you are assuming I exploit the game to kingdom come". It's pretty obvious you are arguing just to argue, because you are arguing here out of two sides of your mouth. Either you choose to exploit everything or you don't. The option is yours.




Why would an NPC stand there and get shot by someone on high ground? they would simply find cover and yell for help or simply flee the area and move to a more defensible position. You make your own choice to exploit, and like here you make excuses for your exploitation. And that's fine cause You make your own choice and to become a lich or not as well. But you don't get to make my choices for me, I'm afraid. So just stop trying.








again, what is your point? Did someone suggest that becoming a lich makes the AI dumber?

Arguing to argue is all your are doing, without much of a point(s).

Vendur, stop confusing yourself before you forget what we talk about and take your creator somewhere else. I think the majority here wants a balanced game and not a free-god-weapon in the beginning of the game.

I don't understand why people are actually getting upset with one another over a forum conversation for a computer game.

On the lich thing though; why would you immediately turn horrible rotten corpse like though? Shouldn't that just happen over time?

I can controle myself. I've played before where god spells just don't exist, and it was fun. Why can't it be that way from the start? Give my mage a reason why he shouldn't use the god spells. Sure, I as a player have a reason, but my character lacks one. My character would want to be as strong as possible.


They should find cover or run, but they dont. They run against the rock if there is no path for them to take to get to you. Any archer would take up that spot because it is smart to take possitions that are hard for enemies to get to, but the npc ai makes it so that you are cheating if you do that because they don't know well enough to run away. Its a conflict between what my character should do and what I want to do. In an rpg, where I play as the character, I will play as what my character would do. That's just how rpg's are, you play as the character and see the world through their eyes. I shouldn't have to step out of character in an rpg to make sure I don't abuse the ai or the system.


Talk about a red harring fallacy. We were talking about ai right? Anyway, if you look back at my first post about becoming a lich, I said you should be able to become one with a lot of hard work, but even after that hard work it should be ballanced in such a way that you don't become a complete and utter god.


Either that or you're not looking at what I'm saying and switching topics when I do make a point.

I can put the "god weapon" down whenever I want, cause I have my big boy pants on.

But why would the character you're playing as want to put the god weapon down? Does your character realize that all this is just a game and that he doens't want to abuse the game he is living in?

Also, my big boy pants are on as well. Its why I'm not insulting anyone when I post a reply.

I play my character, my character doesn't play me. I'm playing the game to have fun, which may or may not involve loping peoples heads off with a god weapon. It all depends on my mood and the character. The whole "but I'm locked into RPing my character and can't possible put down the over powered god weapon" is such a ridiculously lame non-argument.

You've wasted enough of my time. Don't expect any further responses.

That's the best thing I've heard from you so far. If you want to play a god, why not simply put down the difficulty instead of abusing the games over powered things and playing on the most difficult of difficulties, which is easy with the exploits. All OP things should be gone and for those who want to feel like gods there is the difficulty slider to change it to easier. No need to make the most difficult difficulty ridiculously easy like in OB if you exploited. Nearly impossible otherwise in fact.

That's all fine and dandy for the way you play, but completey screws me and a lot of other peoples playstyle. And its not even like I'm against god weapons or spells. They should be blood rare and hard as hell to get, but they can still be there. They should fit with the world around it. It was to easy to abuse the system before, is it wrong to hope that it is harder this time around? Is it a waste of time to ask for some balance to the more powerful items?

If I completely immerse myself into my character, then I am the character in the world. I play with that character's state of mind, I react and make decitions based on what that character would do. Its a lot of fun, and I think you should give it a shot before you call it lame or stupid.

I dont remember ever saying they shouldn't be there either. I remember saying that it shouldn't happen so easily, you know, balanced. Sorry for wasting your time though. Its to bad I can't expect to have heated arguements with someone without them getting flustered over me disagreeing with them.

if liches weren't more powerful in some way than a non-lich human, why would anyone choose to become lich in the first place?


The difficulty slider goes both ways. It's funny you trying to use an argument that completely detroys your own premise.

Being a lich adds to the role play option, if we want to play as a lich we should be able to. But they shouldn't be immortal. Instead, there should be other ways to show we are a lich such as adding weaknesses and bonuses.

Yeah the slider goes both ways, but when putting it up it should become more difficult that it doesn't when you play like you do.

Now if there are god weapons, why hasn't any of the NPCs used it and killed all the dragons with it?

I agree with you. Immortality would be pointless, but playing as a lich would add a lot too roleplay. Your very physique should change with the racial abilities removed and lich abilities added(like poison and disease immunity, but weakness too fire). I also think they should be similar too the ones in OB. Not the visuals or artstyle, but that they move and cast spell different from NPCs. It should be balanced so you could equally powerful while playing a normal mage.

Where is this about them being immortal coming from? Cause there are several suggestions of what "immortality" entails in this thread? Did you just invent another straw man like your "god weapon" anology?I don't think anyone is asserting liches should be truly immortal, cause they simply aren't and shouldn't be.

I'll answer your question with more questions.

How come the Gods don't kill all the dragons? that;s where the weapon came from anyway! Huh?

How come the "immortal" unkillable NPCs don't just come kill them from Oblivion?


herp derpy straw men.

As you seem to like over powered things I simply showed you what you would like liches to be, because the whole point with this thread is liches. You like being unkillable, you want OP abilities and you want god weapons to be able to face roll the game with no effort even at it's the most difficult. Thus you also mean liches should be immortal because that's how you like it, over powered and unbalanced. That's what you have been arguing for all the time, that these OP things should be in the game because when you feel like one hitting everything and being immortal you'll have to have it in the game for you to use. But now you are saying you've been lying all this time about what you really want Skyrim to be? Choose where you stand and don't change shelter as the weather changes.

That could work but i dislike the idea of making lich regenerate faster. rather have like 30 bonus hp

I'm surprised so many people are against the idea of becoming a lich. I think it could be great from a roleplaying point of view, but from a gameplay point of view, Bethesda will have to find the right balance between positive and negative aspects of becoming a lich.

Where did I say I liked being "unkillable" or that I liked "overpowered" things? I simply prefer more options given to my character, not less. I usually avoid overpowered things, actually, and try to identify what is overpowered ASAP when I begin playing a game, and then I try playing avoiding those things. That doesn't mean I don't want the option there. More optiosn the better, always.


Anyway you seem to have moved from tossing around straw men to flat out lying about what I have said.

No need to eat, drink or sleep, means more time for research and learning.

Yeah sure, a person lies when he states what others point of view about a matter is when that person has lied. Now that is a hex-circle

It does sound like a good idea if you had the choice, but personally i don't believe they will ever incorperate this into a TES game

To everyone that is complaining of balance issues, there would be none. I don't think bethesda is stupid. I do not know of any balancing issues in Morrowind or Oblivion, so why would they make Skyrim unbalanced. Yes there would be perks to becoming a lich, but at the same time they would surely put bad aspects of it. Perhaps a severely lowered strength, endurance, agility, everything that a dead person would have lowered, but an increase in intelligence and wisdom. Another thing is that a lich would probably have no mana regeneration. This is because he is basically keeping himself alive by sheer willpower (depending on what take you take on liches). So although they would be extremely powerful, they couldn't run into a town and kill everything, that is why they sit in caves and build vast undead armies.

So, in other words, Beth would not put it in if they didn't make it a fair part of the game. They would find things to put in to balance it, and I really hope they put it in. This would add to the amount of characters/playthroughs to do in a game, for example you can make about 10 characters without being bored. Archer\thief, Warrior, Mage, Assassin, Vampire (could be with any of the others, or one character as a vampire), werewolf, Lich, etc. etc. It would not be a bad thing to implement into the game because it would put a lot of replay value into the game.

that just doesnt seem like a big downside imean big deal people dont like you as much