The realm of the dead would wipe your memory clean. There is no underworld. When a person dies, they go to the Dreamsleeve (or their respected daedra of worship, but ignore this part). Once in the Dreamsleeve, their memories are wiped clean and stay there till they are reborn again, clean of all past experiences. Once in the Dreamsleeve, you don't leave until you are reborn a mortal again. So, the only way you'll see a troubled spirit, is if they're in Mundus still. And you don't need to be a necromancer or an undead being to release them from their torment.

Also, read my link below for what necromancy is [censored] about. And that is for ALL you guys who are new to TES or just don't don't know all that much about necromancy in TES are basing assumptions on other source material outside of TES.

Interesting where did you find that information.

Here's a discussion that should help, since I'm too exhausted to explain: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1000865&hl=Dreamsleeve

If you put it like that then I can only agree. But as I wrote before, in that case it would have to be one of the endings of the game (this would also mean some correlation of the main quest with a guild questline - finally!). Nonetheless I feel I would be a little less immersed being reminded once again this world doesn't work like the real world thus becoming less real to me...

Thanks for that. It seems I had it a bit missmatched for some reason.


Well, the fact that in every freaking game they are shown somehow does not mean that they will be like that in TES as well. I do not know about you, but I kind of like it that Beth sort of change many of the given rules and they try to be original.

And as far as the look of the lich goes, I understand it that after the process, your body is dead and thus is suspect to decay. But just after the process, you could look unhealthy, pale and whatnot, then after some days your flash would begin to rot and fall off and after some time you would be just a skeleton. What I'm saying is that the skeletal look does not have to kick in right after the ritual. Sure you will end up like that, but it is like aging. Your avatar in TES games will get older eventually, but in the course of the game you do not see any changes.


In Morrowind vampires worked that way. And for thousands time, the fact that you would be attacked on sight and unable to start a conversation with any NPC is just your unfounded presumption.



Attacked on sight IF RECOGNISED. Besides, the Empire is big and the cultures differ. The approach in the parts of the Empire we have already seen may differ to those we are to see in TES V.
Especially in TES IV liches are not handeled well. But neither are vampires, bandits or other groups. Besides, it is very well possible that there are several ways to become a lich or that not all the liches are the same. Look at vampires. The first vampire was created by Molag Bal. And now, they are all very different as described in that Oblivion book, so why would all the liches have to be the same.
And as far as playable skeletons, mummies and zombies go, I do not think that this is possible. There are proves in the game that a lich remains his personality and self-awareness, but so far it seems that zombies, mummies and skeletons are mindless, therefore hardly playable. With hosts, it is more difficult. Some evidence suggest that a ghost can retain its former self, but they usually stay in this plane of existence for a singular purpose and sometimes are unable to manipulate the world around them other then by words or hints, which would strongly affect their possibilities.

You are basing your ideas on things that might be true. Have you any proof that liches are accepted anywhere or is that just something you made up? And how did you think they were going to hide their appearance?

Sure all liches are not the same but we don't have any proof that they are different from each other. Only because there are takling liches doesn't make them a creature that people will want to have around and why would all liches attack you on sight if they are so self aware? There are just as many proofs that ghosts keep their personality as liches do.

I dunno, man. They're always wearing some kind of hoodie.

No, just as yourself, I'm just guessing. My point in this thread is to show that if the devs so choose, there is enouch room for making liches playable. Sure, if the devs decide that they do not want to, then they will not. I'm just trying to show that it is not impossible.

The problem with lich's appearance is that they would most probably look quite ugly - rotting flesh and who know what. So, masking this by wearing hoods of full helmets as well as covering their bodies with robes, gloves and boots should prevent most common folks from recognising them.

And I guess we will agree that liches are sort of apt at magic. Since we already have illusion magic present why cannot the liches hide thier true nature using it?



Again, there is no prove that they cannot be. I'm not saying that liches would be guys that would hang around your favourite pub, I'm saying that with some disguise they might keep the neccessary contact with people, like trading or questing. and as I have written, I do not think that ghosts neccessarily loose their personality as you can interact with soem in the game.

There is nowhere in the Empire where necromancy is widely accepted. You don't need to 'guess' at the reactions liches would recieve from 99% of people encountered, and that would be a bad reaction. Some illusion may be able to be used, but any good mage would easily be able to sense and dispel something like that.

So far there is no precedent for a cure for bieng a lich, and why would there be? It seems if one wanted to become unbelievably powerful and immortal they would know the concequences of bieng a lich in the first place. So while becoming a lich may be possible, and they may add it (though i doubt it...) it would instantly break the game. I have a feeling most of the fervor around wanting liches in the game comes from the same people who want dwarves to come back, and weresharks, and lots of dragons, etc etc.

Is being accepted by NPC this much of an Issue? In Morrowind if you were a Vampire nobody would like to you except Telvannis and members of the Mage Guild. In Morrowind being a Vampire meant having a lot of power and being extremly lonely. So I guess if one becomes a lich it would work the same way, maybe with some quests only doable if you're a lich. But yeah, being hated by everyone would svck so I guess a cure would have to exist, the quest could be hard as hell though.

bieng 'lonely' in a mostly static world game, or even RL usually means incredibly bored. So can just spare that.

Well nobody would force you to become a lich, you'd become one while being aware of how it would be after.

Would be awesome as long as you have a spell to disguise yourself or maybe even take over a dead body?

Hey that's a neat idea. If one is strong enough to become a lich, possessing a dead body must be a piece of cake, would only be a temporary solution though, a dead body is still a dead body.

In Daggerfall, necromancy is encouraged by the rulers and necromancers practice thier art openly. And since being a lich is about being a powerful spellcaster, why do you assume that every mage would be able to beat lich's magic and see through his illusion



There definitely should not be any kind of cure for lichdom. Even if the devs decide that as a lich you will lead a lonely existence without the ability to communicate with anyone (and i highly doubt this, as there is no reason to place such a restriction), still lichdome could be a nice thing you can do when you finish all the quests or if you do not care for quests. It would be an option, option that would make sense, so the ones who would like it could actually use it and the others might ignore it.

And no, I do not want to see dwemers back and I hope Beth will never destroy the lore they have about dragons by making them creatures you can fight. As far as werecreatures go, I know I would not play as one, but again, why not to add them if they are done tastefully.

How's this for a solution to everyone's concerns about no one supporting necromancy? Have the Sload raise Thras. You're able to go, and practice freely.

I beleive Lichdom should be in for the mere reason of more choice. You know that you will be hated by most people so it is your CHOICE to become one.

To deal with the other people's reaction to one being a lich, why not just have wearable masks to hide the player character's face if they ever choose to be a lich?

Thanks alot

I would really like to be a lich, but it should not be a race, it should be a something you can achieve through arcane arts, and require that you are extremely powerful with magic.

But what would be the point then? It is usually done IN ORDER to become extremely powerful with magic...


And I will repeat myself one more time: cool idea, but only if it's one of the endings of the main quest

I said no because it would take several in-game decades. Not possible from a gameplay point of veiw.

We really don't have much to go off of but in The Path of Transcendence its states: "Not even our Sovereign was quite certain how long this process would take, at it varies from one Necromancer to the next, based on many factors both physical and spiritual."

Therefore gameplay-wise its plausible it could only take a couple of days using the method that Celedaen was attempting to use.

You would have to become an eternal enemy of Meridia, the Daedric Prince of Life, she would send Aurorans after you while you sleep.

Well, if you become a lich you would most probably make Arkay and Meridia quite angry, but I ave never seen Aurorans bothering any other undead, so why the player? I guess that Meridia has better things to do than send her boys after every undead in the world