Lichdom vol 2 : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:09 am

Idc much, but it always seems like it takes tons of study and years of concentration and a crazy encantations to become one.

In that case it should require you to hunt down lots of books and have a crazy final quest to become one and you shouldn't be able to do the final quest to become one until you have 200-300 game days from your characters initial creation.... or longer.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:00 am

Ah and it seems that this thread lost its subject a little bit. In stead of: "Do we want liches and if so, how we want them" we have a thread of: "Who can insult whom better" or "My ideas are the only ones correct". What a shame. The idea of lihdom deserves more I think.

So now to the topic:

For role playing reasons I want to have a possibility to be a lich, because most of my characters are evil mages and necromances. Being a lich is the top of this occupation.

I have read many posts saying that we do not need lichdom. Well, I guess we do not. We do not need werewolves and vampires and necromancy, hell, we do not need the whole game! We just want it.

The argument that lichdom will be screwed up anyway so Beth should not even bother is very lame as well. Magic system of Oblivion is about as bad as can be. Yet noone says that there should be o magic in TES V, because it will sure svck again.

Another group says that being a lich will ruin the gameplay, because THEY THINK the lichdom will look like this and that. Well, in Morrowind, if you became a vampire no NPCs interacted with you (except for other vampires and severa other quest related ones I think) and it was playable (badly, sure, but still possible). The point is, WE DO NOT KNOW THIS! It is only your assumption that liches will not be able to interact with NPCs. Again, you are fortelling the result and base your arguments on it. That makes no sense.

And lastly, some people say: "Hey, why should they botther making something I do not want! If the freaks want liches, they can mod them!" Well, sure. I believe that if tere is no lichdom in TES V, there will be a mod for this. Even if there is a lichdom, there will be mods to change it. BUT Beth must not surrender their responsibility for making the game to modders! i mod a bit myself and I know that it is way easier to change something that exists then making it from scratch. Besides we need to have the lichdom to feel like a part of the world. That is hard to do with mods.

So, to sum up, if the lichdom is made, it will hurt noone. You still do not have to play a lich, but we, who want to should be given a chance. I highly respect those who say that they do not care for liches and palying as ones, yet they want the possibility to exist for the sake of richness. And let us see how Beth make the lichdo and critisize it AFTERWORDS not before.

And to the OP:

I think that you should be able to do all quests as a lich (but for yome you would have a completely new way opened and some possibilities closed as well, but I do not really like being limited in what quests I can do)
And for the perks of being a lich, I think some attributes boosts. A lich does not have to cae so much about outer world, so he is not distracted, so willpower and intelligence should be buffed up. Probably evenstrngth, because your muscles are replaced by magic energy and therefore you are no longer limited by normal laws of nature.

Exactly! Everyone that are saying "NO!" do realise that it will be optional

& btw about illusion, The lich mod had a spell that made you look human for a certain amount of time

note: i never played mod as i play on PS3, tryed downloadn in vain as i thought the PS3s ability to go online would suffice, It didnt

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:21 pm

Idc much, but it always seems like it takes tons of study and years of concentration and a crazy encantations to become one.

In that case it should require you to hunt down lots of books and have a crazy final quest to become one and you shouldn't be able to do the final quest to become one until you have 200-300 game days from your characters initial creation.... or longer.

But then people *me* would just wait 24hrs 300 times, It doesn't make sense, u could spend those 300 days killing goblins then suddenly u can become a lich.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:26 am

Ah and it seems that this thread lost its subject a little bit. In stead of: "Do we want liches and if so, how we want them" we have a thread of: "Who can insult whom better" or "My ideas are the only ones correct". What a shame. The idea of lihdom deserves more I think.

Your right, the last topic was like that as well with everyone arguing (myself included I'm just as guilty as everyone else) in the beginning and it end up being the same with this topic.

And to the OP:

I think that you should be able to do all quests as a lich (but for yome you would have a completely new way opened and some possibilities closed as well, but I do not really like being limited in what quests I can do)
And for the perks of being a lich, I think some attributes boosts. A lich does not have to cae so much about outer world, so he is not distracted, so willpower and intelligence should be buffed up. Probably evenstrngth, because your muscles are replaced by magic energy and therefore you are no longer limited by normal laws of nature.

I have to disagree with being able to do all quests as a Lich. The church of Arkay hates Necromancy, Undead and Vampires so if you become a Lich and there a joinable faction the next game you shouldn't be able to do their quests. That's not to say you can't do that quest line you just got to do it before becoming a Lich.

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:07 pm

Your right, the last topic was like that as well with everyone arguing (myself included I'm just as guilty as everyone else) in the beginning and it end up being the same with this topic.

Agreed, sorry, for lossing the the point of the thread ; ;

If people want it bad enough than I think that they should definately do as long as they do it right. Suppose it might be good for certain rp types. Me I wouldn't use it because I RP the type of characters that hunt undead of all types... make some good money doing it too.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:00 am

I hated vampirism in ob because you got forced into it almost.
wont mind lichdom unless you get forced into it

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:57 am

I have to disagree with being able to do all quests as a Lich. The church of Arkay hates Necromancy, Undead and Vampires so if you become a Lich and there a joinable faction the next game you shouldn't be able to do their quests. That's not to say you can't do that quest line you just got to do it before becoming a Lich.

I agree. I don't understand why people want to be Liches, but it shouldn't actually affect the game. Becoming a Lich takes time, so you probably have done many quests before becoming one anyways.

If there are any stages to it, being able to walk around cities as a full Lich should require master level illusions, maybe some power you can find and learn while being a Lich. Liches don't actually need merchants or peasants or anyone else either so avoiding cities and only having people flee or attack sounds fine. What does a Lich do with sword and money? Especially when you have the powers to slay the merchants.

It would bring godly powers with the price of loneliness, and some decreased attributes. I like the idea of entering a city, chaos breaking out as I see everyone escape or attack me. After I defeat them, I see the town is almost abandoned, my kingdom. It would also be fun and believable to have just a very few NPC's around who will stay, unless I choose to kill them too (People who want to become liches, worship liches, are too afraid or depressed with their life to flee or fight me)

I could create a ghost town, summon undead to fill the city. Maybe the fleeing people would inform other cities and they would send some troops to take down me and my army.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:32 am

I have to disagree with being able to do all quests as a Lich. The church of Arkay hates Necromancy, Undead and Vampires so if you become a Lich and there a joinable faction the next game you shouldn't be able to do their quests. That's not to say you can't do that quest line you just got to do it before becoming a Lich.

Well, of course as a lich you would not be able to join the order of Arkay. That is right and that makes sense. I just ment that it should not be like: "Oh, you are lich, so this quest giving NPC will not talk to you, no metter how disguised you are, because he can use his pesantry sense to look through your arcane illusions". And still, I would like if you could accept even good or holly oriented quests and do them "the other way". Like a priest (who does not recognise you outright) will ask you to retrieve a holly artifact that was stolen yb aband of necromancers. So, you go to the necromancers and actually help them with desacrating it and so on.
But I agree that things have to make sense in the first place.

Agreed, sorry, for lossing the the point of the thread ; ;

If people want it bad enough than I think that they should definately do as long as they do it right. Suppose it might be good for certain rp types. Me I wouldn't use it because I RP the type of characters that hunt undead of all types... make some good money doing it too.

Well, that applies to about every element in the game, doesn't it

. Hope i will not meet your character in the game world when I'm a lich and you undead-hunter. Might be fun. :nuke:

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:20 am

Ah and it seems that this thread lost its subject a little bit. In stead of: "Do we want liches and if so, how we want them" we have a thread of: "Who can insult whom better" or "My ideas are the only ones correct". What a shame. The idea of lihdom deserves more I think.

So now to the topic:

For role playing reasons I want to have a possibility to be a lich, because most of my characters are evil mages and necromances. Being a lich is the top of this occupation.

I have read many posts saying that we do not need lichdom. Well, I guess we do not. We do not need werewolves and vampires and necromancy, hell, we do not need the whole game! We just want it.

The argument that lichdom will be screwed up anyway so Beth should not even bother is very lame as well. Magic system of Oblivion is about as bad as can be. Yet noone says that there should be o magic in TES V, because it will sure svck again.

Another group says that being a lich will ruin the gameplay, because THEY THINK the lichdom will look like this and that. Well, in Morrowind, if you became a vampire no NPCs interacted with you (except for other vampires and severa other quest related ones I think) and it was playable (badly, sure, but still possible). The point is, WE DO NOT KNOW THIS! It is only your assumption that liches will not be able to interact with NPCs. Again, you are fortelling the result and base your arguments on it. That makes no sense.

And lastly, some people say: "Hey, why should they botther making something I do not want! If the freaks want liches, they can mod them!" Well, sure. I believe that if tere is no lichdom in TES V, there will be a mod for this. Even if there is a lichdom, there will be mods to change it. BUT Beth must not surrender their responsibility for making the game to modders! i mod a bit myself and I know that it is way easier to change something that exists then making it from scratch. Besides we need to have the lichdom to feel like a part of the world. That is hard to do with mods.

So, to sum up, if the lichdom is made, it will hurt noone. You still do not have to play a lich, but we, who want to should be given a chance. I highly respect those who say that they do not care for liches and palying as ones, yet they want the possibility to exist for the sake of richness. And let us see how Beth make the lichdo and critisize it AFTERWORDS not before.

And to the OP:

I think that you should be able to do all quests as a lich (but for yome you would have a completely new way opened and some possibilities closed as well, but I do not really like being limited in what quests I can do)
And for the perks of being a lich, I think some attributes boosts. A lich does not have to cae so much about outer world, so he is not distracted, so willpower and intelligence should be buffed up. Probably evenstrngth, because your muscles are replaced by magic energy and therefore you are no longer limited by normal laws of nature.

Tres Bien!

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:13 am

The anti-lich opposition has surrendered! Charge forward my fellow Liches , for we most loot, pillage, and steal arcane texts

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:26 am

Tres Bien!

Merci

The anti-lich opposition has surrendered! Charge forward my fellow Liches , for we most loot, pillage, and steal arcane texts

No, no, no, I do not want to see this as a battle. I think we will all win (and Lord of Redwall and my name is????? have made a large step towards this) if we manage to discus this (and all other metters and threads) in a civilised way. I do nto want to defeat those who disagree.

As far as loot, pillage, carnage andother favorite passtimes go, I'm all for it. Can't wait to rise my army of undead and attacking a peacful town near by. I just hope the Devs will see how much fun this can be as well and will listen to us! Maybe some mind altering curses could work on them *hint, hint*

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:32 am

Merci

No, no, no, I do not want to see this as a battle. I think we will all win (and Lord of Redwall and my name is????? have made a large step towards this) if we manage to discus this (and all other metters and threads) in a civilised way. I do nto want to defeat those who disagree.

As far as loot, pillage, carnage andother favorite passtimes go, I'm all for it. Can't wait to rise my army of undead and attacking a peacful town near by. I just hope the Devs will see how much fun this can be as well and will listen to us! Maybe some mind altering curses could work on them *hint, hint*

Any shamans near where you live

Maybe we could hire a Lich and get him to have a "Chat" with gamesas, nay, that wouldn't work he'd just kill them because of the way they portrayed liches as mindless beasts in Tes IV.

Anywho, i agree with you. we souldn't fight about this, everyone is entitled to civilized debate. I agree with you also that it's going to awesome picking on peasants. I'm going to kill them in the most amusing ways possible, just like the greatest lich ever, Xykon(Order of the Stick main baddy). Xykon is what every lich aspires to be. If you don't know about him, google Order of the Stick, great comic.

Anyway, I'm going for a Grim reaper build, I'll harvest the souls of my victims and carry around a scythe and wear a dark robe.

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:26 pm

Well, when we are on the topic of liches, I think we could debate also liches as enemies. I think (and i guess that at least some of oyu will agree) that Oblivion's way of making liches was not right. I really do not think that liches should be something as common in dungeons and the ones you do encounter should definitely be less mindless creatures and more intelligent beings. Firts of, I think that liches should be NPCs, not creatures. This will make them much more diverse. No longer should all the liches look the same and wear the same clothes. No! They should also inhabit only very specific places and ruins. Something like ancient wizard towers or so.And I guess there should be only few of them. Some5 or 10 at most and they shouldhave personalities of their own. Their clothes, their powers, their lair, their dialogues their personalities, it should all be specific to every one of them.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:40 am

Well, when we are on the topic of liches, I think we could debate also liches as enemies. I think (and i guess that at least some of oyu will agree) that Oblivion's way of making liches was not right. I really do not think that liches should be something as common in dungeons and the ones you do encounter should definitely be less mindless creatures and more intelligent beings. Firts of, I think that liches should be NPCs, not creatures. This will make them much more diverse. No longer should all the liches look the same and wear the same clothes. No! They should also inhabit only very specific places and ruins. Something like ancient wizard towers or so.And I guess there should be only few of them. Some5 or 10 at most and they shouldhave personalities of their own. Their clothes, their powers, their lair, their dialogues their personalities, it should all be specific to every one of them.

I agree, however, i think the idea of "Loads of liches in one cave together" Should be scrapped. Liches absolutly HATE each other. It makes 0 sense why they all stay in the same cave. Maybe, occiasionly, you'll see too liches banding together for company/power/ETC, but that's rare. Their should be few liches and the few Liches should be extremly powerful. Not only that, but they shouldn't be treated like Dumb beasts, they shouldn't live in ruins. Why would they? Because the Cliche demands that of them? No, they should live in towers, fully functional tower. I mean, before they became Liches, they were extremly powerful mages with a lot of Influence. That should reflect in Undeath. Also, about half of Liches should be non-Attack on sight. Some should b disguised when you meet them. Also, liches should study and get more powerful over time, they should also have thier own followers and terrorize the countryside.

I want my character to feel like he isn't the obnly sentient Lich there is.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:29 am

I think if you are a lich other liches and undead would be friendly and have quests, I'm mostly all for this, but it wouldn't work well with the main quests, but hey, if everyone else can turn lich, why can't you?

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:26 pm

I think if you are a lich other liches and undead would be friendly and have quests, I'm mostly all for this, but it wouldn't work well with the main quests, but hey, if everyone else can turn lich, why can't you?

1. Not everyone can become a Lich.
2. Liches hate each other.

I'm, not sure about Liches socially. What we do know, is that they hate each other. We don't know the extent of this hate, or how far lich relationships can go. We can only speculate.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:45 am

Well, you couldn't finish the main quests since your a hostile beast, unless there is a totally second storyline option

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:01 am

Well, you couldn't finish the main quests since your a hostile beast, unless there is a totally second storyline option

The second option is do your own thing. As a lich, your the creature of unimginable power, you da boss! You don't take orders from nobody, so you followe your own personal quest thropugh study and beating up scholars for Info. You're above taking quests from puny mortals! And the other liches are all competition, why would you help one? It woud weaken your own postition. Unless of course, an alliance was offered, but liches are gonig to backstab you in 99% of offers.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:05 am

Very true, Very true

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:53 pm

And as you wouldn't start the game as one, you could do all the quests before you become one.

It makes sense that after you accomplished everything, you want to gain even more power.
Or you don't care about saving the common citizens to begin with, you just want to become a god like creature.

If there's going to be Lichdom, it should be real and full lichdom. Not any half done: "you're a normal human with increased magicka but weakened speed"

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:59 am

You wouldn't start as one of course

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:35 am

Well, you couldn't finish the main quests since your a hostile beast, unless there is a totally second storyline option

Why? You do not have to be a beast. Becoming a lich is about an exact oposit. You become a lich to allow yourself an eternity to study magic and to perfect yourself in using it. It is about knowledge, concentration and spellcraft. Not about being a raving maniac (we have werewolves for this - no offence)

Also I think that if you are lich, you can make quests "out of fun" like to see what the punny little mortals do, or jsut to find out new things. And in the same way the NPC liches could interact with you (even if you are not a lich) for their personal amusemant. Of curse, there can one or two liches who became absolutely mad and will attack you on sight or will be absolutely incomperhansible, but others should be completely reasonable. Also if NPC is a lich, they cannot do certain things (the lich cannot walk into a church to acquire the book he wants), so he sends a mortal to do his bidding. (or asks a nether lich - you - to find a solution for him).

Besides, if you become a lich it is your choice whether you will do quests or not and it is up to you to find an RP reason for it (if you care about RP of course).

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:16 am

But spider pig said liches are enemies

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:15 pm

Why? You do not have to be a beast. Becoming a lich is about an exact oposit. You become a lich to allow yourself an eternity to study magic and to perfect yourself in using it. It is about knowledge, concentration and spellcraft. Not about being a raving maniac (we have werewolves for this - no offence)

Also I think that if you are lich, you can make quests "out of fun" like to see what the punny little mortals do, or jsut to find out new things. And in the same way the NPC liches could interact with you (even if you are not a lich) for their personal amusemant. Of curse, there can one or two liches who became absolutely mad and will attack you on sight or will be absolutely incomperhansible, but others should be completely reasonable. Also if NPC is a lich, they cannot do certain things (the lich cannot walk into a church to acquire the book he wants), so he sends a mortal to do his bidding. (or asks a nether lich - you - to find a solution for him).

Besides, if you become a lich it is your choice whether you will do quests or not and it is up to you to find an RP reason for it (if you care about RP of course).

Who dosen't care about Role play in a roleplaying game?

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:46 am

But spider pig said liches are enemies

Well, when a new lich comes into the block, obviously the oldies feel threatened and that this new lout is undeserving. Liches, even oldies Vs. oldies see each other as extreme competition and a threat. However, mortals pose no threat to Liches unless they are particularly powerful. Najak was talking about Mortal interaction with Liches. Liches like playin with mortals, so thier would be no reason simply not to sense the PCs arrival and illusion themselves.