Light Elves v's Dark Elves : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:24 pm

In Germanic mythology & folklore which is where an Elf originates from there are two type - Light Elves & Dark Elves.

It has just occurred to me that in TES the mer races are divided equally into light skinned elves with an yellowy type of skin colour and also there are "changed" elves with a grey / blue skin.

Light Elves we have at present are
1. Altmer
2. Bosmer
3. Maormer?

"Changed" Elves we have at present are
1. Dunmer
2. Orsimer
3. Falmer

What do you think? or is just me who has only just noticed this, lol?

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:06 am

I don't think it works that way in TES. Like, at all.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:51 pm

Depends on your definition of "corrupt."
I mean one could argue there's nothing wrong with the Dunmer or the Orsimer. Corrupt seems to only hold true in the sense that those three have strayed from their original paths, whereas the first three have stuck to theirs. Not so much a good-evil comparison as much as a traditionalist-changed one comparison.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:55 am

Depends on your definition of "corrupt."

sorry. I meant to write "changed". ^ I edited it ^

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:25 am

Where do the Bretons fall then? They are half elves themselves.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:44 am

Where do the Bretons fall then? They are half elves themselves.

'Half', only in the sense that they have traces of Merrish blood, which isn't much.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:53 am

'Half', only in the sense that they have traces of Merrish blood, which isn't much.

Yes but even a small trace is enough to be considered.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:58 pm

Where do the Bretons fall then? They are half elves themselves.

They have Elven genes but are counted as a human race. I think they are more the Celtic inspired human race of Tamriel and Merlin from King Arthur or LOTR's Gandalf are more of an inspiration for a Breton than the Altmer. That or when looking at the Forsworn of the Reach I see the Picts and Celts like portrayed in recent films such as the new King Arthur film or The Eagle or Centurion.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:18 pm

I don't think it works that way in TES. Like, at all.

This.

What about the Dwemer and the Ayleid (and the Direnni, if we count them separately)? What about the Snow Elves who aren't bestial?

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:45 pm

You could argue the Aldmeri Dominion are the corrupt ones, because their strict adherence to dogma and tradition is a toxic mindset that justifies violating everyone else's right to exist.

I'm sure from their point of view they're the "light Elves" and everyone else is an inferior race, but I wouldn't say Orcs or Dunmer are corrupt.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:57 am

They have Elven genes but are counted as a human race. I think they are more the Celtic inspired human race of Tamriel and Merlin from King Arthur or LOTR's Gandalf are more of an inspiration for a Breton than the Altmer.

They are still descendants of the Aldmeri-Nedic Manmer of the Merethic Era. They have Elvish ancestry. To deny them as an Elvish race is a bit closed minded.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:02 pm

This.

What about the Dwemer and the Ayleid (and the Direnni, if we count them separately)? What about the Snow Elves who aren't bestial?

Dwemer are thought to be exticnt but would fall into the Light catagory. Snow ELves are thought to be changed into the Falmer. The Ayleid I thought were to be extinct as well. The Elvish races in theis thread are all around even though not playable.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:54 am

They are still descendants of the Aldmeri-Nedic Manmer of the Merethic Era. They have Elvish ancestry. To deny them as an Elvish race is a bit closed minded.

Its a barely present ancestry though. Hell, the ones that take closer to Merrish culture then mannish are the Imperials. They themselves consider themselves man, plain and simple.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:22 am

They themselves consider themselves man, plain and simple.

Where is that written? You may be correct but I would think that they would cling to their Eleven roots as a sense of pride.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:46 am

Where is that written? You may be correct but I would think that they would cling to their Eleven roots as a sense of pride.

They. Were. SLAVES.

There's nothing to be proud of there.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:02 pm

Where is that written? You may be correct but I would think that they would cling to their Eleven roots as a sense of pride.

Partly because Highrock hardly resembles anything Merrish. Your local witch covens (Which are the primary magic users in Highrock) would be the best ones to represent this faction, but as per the rest of them, you don't see much more. I suppose the best your gonna get is their former name, Manmeri, which is the closest distinction to half elf one would get for them. Even then they (And Tamriel in general) abandoned the name.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:43 am

They. Were. SLAVES.

There's nothing to be proud of there.

Really? I beg to differ. Many slaves, even in the real world, came out of bondage or have ancestors who survive bondage and have an immense sense of pride in that fact. They are a proud race if you read about them.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:44 am

Partly because Highrock hardly resembles anything Merrish. Your local witch covens (Which are the primary magic users in Highrock) would be the best ones to represent this faction, but as per the rest of them, you don't see much more. I suppose the best your gonna get is their former name, Manmeri, which is the closest distinction to half elf one would get for them. Even then they (And Tamriel in general) abandoned the name.

Yes they have seemed to abandon it but yet it still lingers. The question is though, why do they not resemble the mother as in all other inter-mingled parents? That leads to the notion thatther eis more then simple inter-racial breeding and the slave theory.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:48 am

Yes they have seemed to abandon it but yet it still lingers. The question is though, why do they not resemble the mother as in all other inter-mingled parents? That leads to the notion thatther eis more then simple inter-racial breeding and the slave theory.

Who said that the Bretons predecessors only had merrish mothers? Either way, the book was probably more or less for "If you are curious" as to how race A mixes with race B, and I wouldn't say its the end all. Not to mention the many generations it took for the Bretons to be who they are today.

EDIT: All in all, if you want to see a human race celebrate the mingling of Mer and Mannish cultures, turn to the Imperials. Thats how we got the divines as they are today anyway.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:11 pm

Who said that the Bretons predecessors only had merrish mothers? Either way, the book was probably more or less for "If you are curious" as to how race A mixes with race B, and I wouldn't say its the end all. Not to mention the many generations it took for the Bretons to be who they are today.

I never said they did. I was using the much accepted theory that inter-racial breeding took the mother's race for offspring and if that were to be true, how did the Breton's become mixed, assuming their mothers were enslaved by the Aldmer?

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:46 pm

Celts had this sort of thing to. Always Chaotic Good light elves and Always Chaotic Evil Dark Elves.

But yeah, you can't really apply this to Mer.

Where do the Bretons fall then? They are half elves themselves.

The ancient Irish had tales of fairies/elves (interchangabel terms in Irish mythology) mixing with humans. :shrug:

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:15 pm

Really? I beg to differ. Many slaves, even in the real world, came out of bondage or have ancestors who survive bondage and have an immense sense of pride in that fact. They are a proud race if you read about them.

Eh? Pride in perseverance is not even in the same ballpark as affection for ones' own captors. Assimilation, then, is a whole different sport. We don't here much out of the Sabines much, remember.

Anyhows, Bretons are diverse and rather fractious, with Merrish ancestry, influence, and overall cultural currency being largely localized in the south, with Iliac bay and Direnni Tower. Whatever the case, we're not operating on the one-drop/one-percent rule. Bretons are Men, just like Cyrodils are Men, and not Tsaesci.

And the Light v. Dark Dichotomy just doesn't gel with Elder Scrolls. Not even amongst the Nords, for whom all Mer are 'dark'.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoted from the Imperial Lib:

"Khosey, in his 'Tamrilean Tractates,' transcribes a firsthand account of the "discovery" of the Bretons by a Nordic hunting party. The Bretons, in ten generations of Elven intermingling and slavery, had become scarcely recognizable as humans. Indeed, the hunting party attacked them thinking they were some new strain of Aldmeri,"

Even the humans of that time didn't recognize them as humans.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:20 am

Dark elves I thought were associated with Brownies in mythology.

Or rather, what we think a stereotypical Dwarf is.

It's been a long time since ~~I've played through Shin Megami Tensei III~~ read up on my Norse myth/Germanic Folklore/etc.

As stated like 15 other times, this is not how it works. If you split up elves like this then you should split men and beasts too.

...fairness and all that bull.

» Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:56 am

Quoted from the Imperial Lib:

"Khosey, in his 'Tamrilean Tractates,' transcribes a firsthand account of the "discovery" of the Bretons by a Nordic hunting party. The Bretons, in ten generations of Elven intermingling and slavery, had become scarcely recognizable as humans. Indeed, the hunting party attacked them thinking they were some new strain of Aldmeri,"

Even the humans of that time didn't recognize them as humans.

And the Altmer don't recognize them as Mer either. But we're harkening back to the days of when they were considered the Manmeri. Even then, its hard to look at them today and go "Thats a human?" The fact is, you have to think about what they consider themselves, and so far it sure as hell isn't Merrish. Like I said, again, thats the Imperials who conglomerate Mer and Man cultures.