It's just occured to me that, as a Light Armour-wearing Archer, I am obliged to go the Heavy route in Smithing to get the best bows. It didn't take me long to realise that if I were playing a Rogue-type character I would be equally forced to do the same thing for daggers.

Glass Bow - 15 base damage
Ebony Bow - 17 base damage
Daedric Bow - 19 base damage

Glass Dagger - 9 base damage
Ebony Dagger - 10 base damage
Daedric Dagger - 11 base damage

Unless you invest in the entire Smithing constellation, a Heavy Armour-wearing player will always have a better bow or dagger than a Light simply because you need to take the Heavy Perks to be able to improve the items. The problem is that for Heavy characters, the Bow and maybe Dagger are secondary weapons, while for the Archer/Rogue they are primary weapons. There is a significant difference between a Glass Bow and a Daedric one and Light Armour wearers

It's not as simple as just putting the Bows and Daggers on the other side of the tree because then you'd be able to make Glass, Ebony and Daedric Bows all with the same Perk. That aside, there must be some way to make it possible. Perhaps by re-arranging the constellation so that Perks are not fixed to material type but to "mastery" of the craft in the same way that One-Handed allows one to specialise in a given weapon-type.

Maybe it should be something like this:

Apprentice Smith
Can make/improve Leather and Iron weapons and armour

Light Smithing (20)
Can make/improve Studded armour

Heavy Smithing (20)
Can make/improve Steel weapons and armour

Light Artisan (40)
Can make/improve Elven armours and weapons, Steel Daggers and Bows

Heavy Artisan (40)
Can make/improve Dwarven armours and weapons

Light Expert (50)
Can make/improve Scale armours and Dwarven light weapons

Heavy Expert (50)
Can make/improve Steel Plate, Ebony armours and weapons

Light Master (60)
Can make/improve Glass armours and weapons, Ebony light weapons

Heavy Master (60)
Can make/improve Ebony armour and weapons

Arcane Smithing (60)
Can improve magical weapons and armour and make staves ready for enchanting (yes, just throwing that in there)

Light Grand Master (80)
Can make/improve Bone armour (you know, the stuff we can't make or improve right now, but can buy and find) and Ebony light weapons

Heavy Grand Master (80)
Can make/improve Daedric armours and weapons

Legendary Smithing (100)
Can make/improve Draconic armours and Daedric light weapons.

I don't know, that's just an idea, the point is that there has to be a way for Archers and Thieves to be able to access the best version of their weapon of choice without being forced into investing in Perks that are primarily about heavy armour.

The way it is works fine, at the end you both end up with Dragon/Daedric equipment, it's just how you get there which is up to you. Personally, I chose the light path even though I wear heavy armour because I wanted steel plate; it's far less poncy looking than the other armour types.

I like this idea. I'm still about to plow my Khajiit thief with Smithing skill, thanks to the 96 Dwarven Metal Ingots I have lying around, but this would be cool.

Except it doesn't work that way. Yes, both sides end up with Dragon Armour, but the only way to get Ebony or Daedric (and Orcish and Dwarven) bows and daggers is to go all the way down the Heavy side. In other words, a Light Armour wearer is better off ignoring the Light side of the constellation, relying on the ability to make basic improvements to their Light Armour, and just going all the way down Heavy side to get to Dragon.

exactly, i made this argument before, the majority of people that had a brain agreed with me, but for some reason others wouldnt even have the common decency to bother looking at the facts. Going the light smithing path was a waste of perks as the end goal is to have dragon armor with daedric weapons.

And like ive stated, this would not be a problem if the smithing tree was allowed to go full circle so that if you went light you can go to dragon THEN go down to daedric to get weapons for your light armor guy.

I started the game all over again because of this issue, and this time i had a few extra perks to spare on other things as i went full heavy smithing for my light armor guy.

Does DPS matter in this game?

For example if you have a sword with base damage of 15 but it only weights 10 LBs then have an AX that is BD of 30 but it weights 25 LBS.
Wouldnt that mean the sword is just as good if not better? Or does this game not work like that

Yeah, this is unfortunate for stealth-type characters. I guess if you power to 100 Smithing up the heavy side you can use dragonscale armor and a daedric bow/daggers, but that feels pretty cheap, and you'd be skipping much of the stealth-oriented gear.

This is part of the reason (a very small part, but a part nonetheless) why I started a heavy armor Nord rather than continue with my stealthy Dark Elf. On my Dark Elf I tended to just stick with leather plus Krosis for headgear... fortunately leather armor in Skyrim is sick.

On a side note, I haven't tested this... but I'm guessing you're not allowed to go up one side of the tree and down the other?

i ahvent seen any difference in speed from a sword that weighs 5 lbs vs one that weighs 15

perhaps ill test it out more thoroughly

Weapon speed is based on type, not weight, with Daggers being the fastest and lowest damage and Maces being Slowest and Highest damage. I believe it is dagger>sword>axe>mace for one-handed and sword>axe>hammer for two-handed. A Daedric Mace will always be slower than an Iron Dagger, and a Daedric Dagger will always be faster than an Iron Mace.

Going from Dragon to Daedric Smithing would help at "endgame" but it doesn't solve the problem for the rest of the time, unless you're going to exploit Smithing/Enchanting. You still don't have access to Dwarven, Orcish and Ebony types unless you invest in the relevant heavy Perks. Another option would be to make bows and daggers made with Elven or Glass better than those made with Dwarven/Orcish or Ebony/Daedric.

I just remembered that the "missing" high rank Light Armour is already in the game. Chitin Armour is referred to a few times and you can find chitin pieces, but you can't make the armour or use the chitin you find for anything (that I know of) other than vendor trash.

High rank light armor? Chitin?

...Wasn't that the one of, if not THE worst armors in Morrowind?

So put it at the bottom then, the point is that Light Armour and Heavy Armour don't have an equal number of types.

Missing mithrel

Ohhh hey! *Thinks about Oblivion Bosmer in all Mithril gear* I forgot about that!