Limits! We must have LIMITS! :P : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:12 am

This is an overused and poor argument. Yes you play it for those fantasies, you also want those fantasies to be consistent so that they are immersive. For instance most people feel guns would be out of place. Why? You could quite happily live out these fantasies with guns in the world. It's because that doesn't fit with the World. And to some people, not including myself, being able to carry around more stuff than an armoured personal carrier breaks that immersion.

Like I've said plenty of times 'realism' has been stigmatised because some people want too much of it. Pure fantasy isn't what we want, otherwise we wouldn't have swords and gravity and humonoid races. We want a happy middle ground between realism and fantasy. Where you place these things is up to you.

so your argument is lets put guns into TES... I don't really have to debate with you why that will never happen.

EDIT: btw, i am not against any realism, I am against over bearing realism that has no other valid arguement that it is what we do in real life. I against realisms that make fun things not fun

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:04 pm

so your argument is lets put guns into TES... I don't really have to debate with you why that will never happen.

No.... It isn't. I would never argue for guns. Reread what I said, please. The guns thing was merely an example, by interpreting it this way though you have played into my hands, since you clearly feel the same way about guns, as some people feel about the carry capacity. Kudos :S

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:19 am

the problem is that the trend of culture today is of a youth that doesn't understand the concept of suspension of disbelief. they go to movies or play games with the preconcieved notion that what they see should be what is possible. they think the point is to make it seem as if what they are watching/playing is what could actually happen, rather than a fun experience that is meant to give people a break from the tediums of their lives.

thats why realism is stupid in fantasy games.

Sounds more like a reason that its awesome. Choosing to experience a different and believable world, thats something entirely different from the real world. Its not about getting a rest from your regular life to some of us, but rather discovering something beyond the lives that we live.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Just... No they didn't. The relationships suffer the same problem as Oblivion Speechcraft did. You can make everyone love you by spamming 4 things. And the occupations were awful. I remember looking at what I needed to advance from Junior Officer to Counter Intel in The Sims 2. 4 Body Points, 2 Charisma, 1 Mechanical, and 1... Cooking? WTF? Not to mention to go from that to Flight Officer (which makes no sense, but I forgive them for that, military ranks and jobs are too complicated for a kid to figure out) I needed an additional Logic point. Why did I not need logic to be in Counter Intelligence? And why did I suddenly need more friends to fly a plane?

I really should have been more clear in regards to the speechcraft element. I don't want the sims style interactions. I simply would like something to organize my relationships with...something I can look at to see who likes me, who hates me so I can figure out how I can make them happy/mad; I want the numerical aspect of the sims relationship system, not the gameplay.

In terms of jobs, I skipped the Sims 2, so I have no idea how good/bad the game was. The sims 3 on the other hand, handled occupations fairly well. You had to manage your subordinates relationships as well as work on your own personal skills in order to advance in your career. It was quite fun to juggle.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:51 am

No.... It isn't. I would never argue for guns. Reread what I said, please. The guns thing was merely an example, by interpreting it this way though you have played into my hands, since you clearly feel the same way about guns, as some people feel about the carry capacity. Kudos :S

yea, I mis read it at first, and added that thing at the end

Sounds more like a reason that its awesome. Choosing to experience a different and believable world, thats something entirely different from the real world. Its not about getting a rest from your regular life to some of us, but rather discovering something beyond the lives that we live.

well thats just where we disagree, and its fine to like it either way. but the point here is that TES is a fantasy game, the point may not be to be the oposite of reality, but I don't go start demanding games solely based on realism (like the sims) and demand unrealistic things. there are plenty of realism oriented games, turning TES into one of them will exclude everyone like me from the game, but leaving out these minor details do not exclude you from playing the game. its about whats fair and keeping things that are fun, fun, even if they are not realistic.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:16 am

Sounds more like a reason that its awesome. Choosing to experience a different and believable world, thats something entirely different from the real world. Its not about getting a rest from your regular life to some of us, but rather discovering something beyond the lives that we live.

Well said. :thumbsup:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:38 am

thats exactly what the sims is all about, eating, sleeping and potentially raising a family. so you don't perticularly make sense, but to spare this thread an unnecessary The SIms tangent, I'll say that it doesn't even matter, the eating and sleeping NV hardcoe style isn't the worst realism idea put forward, not nearly as bad as having to knock on doors and wait for npc's to answer, or only being allowed to carry one or two weapons at a time... etc, those are the kind that are bad.

1- First of all, the Sims is more akin to a strategy game than anything else. So the implications of say, the New Vegas hardcoe mode, are unexistent in the Sims.

2- You see, part of my criticism is that the OP talks as if there's this huuuge collection of uber realistic games, and he thinks Skyrim should not go in that direction. But, in reality, you know, that feisty little thing, there are no games where you have to sleep, eat, go to bed, watch for temperature, and lots of others things. So, what, he is talking about ideas? So what is the point of the thread? Does he think Beth gives a manure about all the crazy ideas from a bunch of geeks who know next to nothing of video game design?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:43 am

Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one on these forums who doesn't like eating and sleeping. If I wanted to do that, I'd play real life. Soon people will want for their character to need to use the bathroom 3 times a day.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:12 am

I like realism, yeah, but I think that absolutely NEEDING to eat and sleep in Skyrim... well, if it's in, I don't want it forced on me. I play games to live SOMETHING ELSE than my life. And part of my life includes that pathetic little routine of always eating 3 meals a day and going to sleep late in the evening/early in the morning.

Of course, as an option it would still be awesome, but at least have OTHER gameplay elements centered around it (if said mode is activated in the options). In TES it's always so easy to find stuff to eat and bunk beds, as opposed to Fallout where it's actually LOGICAL for there to rarer food and less safe places

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:51 am

Eating is a pathetic routine? Dude...eating is the best thing in the world.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:42 am

This is an overused and poor argument. Yes you play it for those fantasies, you also want those fantasies to be consistent so that they are immersive. For instance most people feel guns would be out of place. Why? You could quite happily live out these fantasies with guns in the world. It's because that doesn't fit with the World. And to some people, not including myself, being able to carry around more stuff than an armoured personal carrier breaks that immersion.

cant be said enough.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:50 am

Someone mentioned the difficulty slider, which is an idea I always thought could solve many problems. But not the way we often see imlpemented (give monster tons of extra hp, goodbye).

We could actually have 2 - 3 typs of sliders:

- one dealing with overall enemy combat difficulties (so issues with better monster AI, higher stats / abilities ofr monsters, etc... according to the slider)
- one dealing with these so-called realism (food, rest, cold / swamp / desert / environmental effects);
- one for , well, lets leave at two (im tired now).

Ultimately, we could tailor the game to our individual preferences. Obviously how hard that is, etc... I cannot know, as my tech skills are poor.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:38 am

Eating is a pathetic routine? Dude...eating is the best thing in the world.

It is, when you actually taste something lol.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:50 am

I only planned to have one playthrough of FO:NV with hardcoe mode on, but lo and behold I never play without. I guess its cause the normal game is to easy.

So a hardcoe option would be nice. But in the end having to make my character eat and sleep regularly tends to break the immersion for me. Yes I said it. Realism breaks immersion.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:50 pm

While I can understand that some people aren't into that sort of thing, I really hope they include an option for an NV type hardcoe mode. In Fallout 3 I have to eat, drink and sleep and I like what it adds to the game. Yes it can get annoying sometimes, but it adds alot to the overall sense of immersion in the game. In Oblivion I just need to sleep, but that's only because I have yet to come across an eating mod I'm satisfied with. And if my character doesn't eat, there's no point in making him drink either.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:21 am

Leave it as a option -> Everyone is happy

This is the case with pretty much everything; specially since this case harms neither side.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:47 am

I love a sense of realism in the games that I play but I think that too realistic can be very tedious and distracting. This whole raising a family buisness, affected by cold, actualy having to sleep and eat to survive...I just don't get that kind of gaming, I want to play TES not The Sims! Thats just my opinion, maybe I'm not hardcoe enough! :flamethrower:

I agree.

I think some people expect too much that will ruin the gameplay.

I'm actually get sick of some of these daft polls where people are trying to include too much.

I'd like to see servants & concubines included. We had a servant in our house in Oblivion. Why not just give the servants more options for your character to make use of.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:13 pm

Realism is such a tough thing. Everyone has an opinion on the level (and evidently "types" of realism) they prefer and pretty much every point of view can have "logic holes" big enough to drive a truck through within a few minutes of conceiving the scenario ("magic" is one of the major culprits here...not that I'm against magic in the game). In the end, I'm for continuity. The current realism level isn't perfect, but it's what we have, and let's just play within that framework. You start messing with that, and odds are good unforseen issues arise due to it.

Let me tell you a story my friend. About 3 years ago I invited a friend to bring the development of his mod for Oblivion, CLS Craftybits to my site. He agreed and after coming over i had an intimate firsthand look at the interaction between mod users and the keeper* of a crafting mod. After about 3 months of watching this interaction i came up with a clever one liner for him to use as a sig which conveys what he would say the most to his suggesters of improvements to the mod. It so fully encompasses the esence of what he was trying to do and what was asked of him that he still uses it to this day.

Bringing realism to a virtual world is harder than you think.

*fourthgeek actually conceptualized and created the original mod

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:41 pm

No.... It isn't. I would never argue for guns. Reread what I said, please. The guns thing was merely an example, by interpreting it this way though you have played into my hands, since you clearly feel the same way about guns, as some people feel about the carry capacity. Kudos :S

Hey, I always love the comments you make because they make alot of discussion! So yeah I'm a fan! But I don't want to anger the mods so please make sure that you don't offend someone and you have a huge arguement/debate over it! I still love the stuff you write though, this was just to make sure nothing happens that happened in the 18+ thread

Peace

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:55 am

Leave it as a option -> Everyone is happy

That was easy.