- Developer is obliged and expected to release regular content updates and improvements to the game - Do you think WOW will get to where its at now if it has been F2P since beginning?

- More resources for the developer means better chances of getting better support vs poor support

- Developer gets to hire the best talents to develop the game

- Lesser gold farmers that ruins the economy

- Lesser 10 yr old kids who are more likely to troll and grief other players

- Everyone is measured on skill, not the amount they pay for items - you don't want another player being better than you because he spent 10x more than you even if you spent 100x time than that player. If a player pays unrealistic amount of money for items then most players will lose the will to win if they cannot match what that player paid for.

add on to the list!

... and oh yeah, lesser Chuck Norris jokes on chat

as what they say, you get what you pay for.

Simply put, they'll have more money for more content. Look at SWTOR, still hardly any decent end game content...

I wanna be good because I spent time in the game, not money.

- The game over time (in theory) is better shaped to the community that play it routinely.

- Ambition isn't destroyed. People aspire to earn the better gear and rewards.

- Longer term appeal and moving goals from ongoing content.

- Sense of teamwork, all working towards rewards, which otherwise would not be needed / wanted.

- Less risk for the developer for taking on new improvements and longer projects.

- Player / Guild instanced housing areas.... Worth a go, and far more likely if there's a committed base paying monthly.

For The Win.

My main one:

- Developers are enticed to spend resources developing actual in-game content instead of purchasable game-store items.

These are all really more of a "why a sub fee is better for ALL MMO's."

So you like paying ￡9 a month partially so you can keep noobs out of the game? That's ridiculous in my opinion.

I can't see how paying a subscription fee could possibly be construed as a good thing. I pay ￡40 a month on Xbox for unlimited access to online for every game I buy. Not to mention that the PS's online is entirely free.

So here's my thought process.. why pay ￡100 a month for one game, when I can pay over half that for hundreds?

Because I'm better with 50 cents a day to play than $10 for 5 bag slots per character.

Awesome thread is awesome

Yeah, as much as I enjoy that game being a big fan of the books (from which much of the visual and story inspiration has come as opposed to the films) The in-your-face cash shop is a major annoyance.

I bought my Rolex because I know it has quality and good aftersales support than buying 300 casio watches that you need to change every time its faulty. And sorry, I'm not a cheapo.

Dark Age of Camelot was apparently created by much of the same People that are now behind Elder Scrolls Online, and ESO share many features of the former. How is DAoC faring these days?

(I'm asking mostly because I am curious)

Agree, and with a steady revenue stream, then can plan ahead, plus I will be playing LOL any other payment model and I would not be here in these forums or pre-purchased..

As you said, those people from DAOC is behind ESO. If those people left DAoC already and set to create a new game, how do you think DAoC fared these days? They already left the latter right?

what your saying is I'm Michael Jordarn, I left Chicago Bulls. Look at where is Chicago Bulls now? Your logic is skewed.

You're paying ￡100 a month for ESO? Someones ripping you off, mate!

????

Sorry, I don't get anything at all of what you are saying...

The first three points are all predicated on the assumption that it will actually attract and hold onto very large numbers of subscribers. Most other big MMOs have discovered that this is not an easy thing to do which is why they all tend to resort to a free to play model. Its much easier to make money that way and fund ongoing costs and future development. Yes there are some drawbacks but at the end of the day these are all businesses and they are in it to make money and they will go down the route that generates the most income, which probably isn't going to be subscription despite many people here ardent wishes. Sorry that's just the reality of modern MMO market place.

If ESO did something massively different there might be a better chance but with the offering they have they are (just like every other major offering has discovered) not going to hold onto enough subscribers after the first few months, at which point it will go free to play because the alternative would be stagnation and eventual shutdown, which would be a disaster for the investors.

What's more I'd be astonished if they didn't know this themselves. I guess trying subscription at first is worth a shot, plus you get the sub money at first while the hype is high. But I'd be willing to bet there is some background work already done on converting over to a free to play model when the time comes.

*Edit* Oh yeah and I also suspect they are pinning their hopes on the console market being different and achieving a much better retention rate. We will have to wait and see on that one, but its another reason I imagine why they wanted to go subscription model first.

Haha. I meant a year. Derp.

Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot are both still Subscription based, AFAIK

And that is why so many people are against cash shop games. Ties in very well with the points at the top posting

Totally. It's long term appeal with steady income vs short term potential gains and destroying the game before its begun.

No one used the word "noob", but if the shoe fits...

I think you may have been short changed if you're paying ￡100 a month. The sub is ￡9 a month. Assuming the game price, for a fairly average game is around ￡35, that would mean without a sub, you could instead buy a game every 4 months or so. So.. tell me.. how often do you buy a game? Games with regular content and ongoing appeal from my perspective seem to work out cheaper. Short term appeal, and you just wind up spending more.

Totally. Pay to win svcks ass. Bigtime. But the points on the OP kinda cover that nicely already.

why most F2P MMO fail these days is because the developers listen to the investors too much. In the long run they fail. All investors want is fast returns on their money to minimize their risks so they pressure the management and they end setting up a cash shop . Meaning, instead of the developers focusing on generating content to improve the game, they generate cash shop items to sell to players. The ESO Management is doing the right thing in making this a subscription based game.

ex., Would you want the developer to create an awesome sword and staff for you to buy in the cash shop or for them to develop a new raid dungeon complete with tier gears?

The bottom line is F2P Games tend to focus only on fast returns than developing the bottom line and developing content. They don't realize that if they go this path, initial sales will be high and eventually player base will be bored because not much content were developed, then revenues will slowly drop.

Or any Perfect World game; especially the namesake (eventually the game died because you could subscribe to an official farm bot; that's the type of evil F2P leads to).

• Developers are more engaged, because a lack of community engagement leads to cancelled subscriptions.
  • Players have a louder voice in the continued development of the game.
• Warm fuzzy feeling that you are supporting the game; a sense of investment as the title improves and grows.
• All the content can be acquired through in-game mechanics. This is not only limited to good stats; it includes cosmetics.
• Long-term plans to upgrade server infrastructure can be made.
• Bad elements in the community (not limited to 10 year olds) are threatened by the possibility of losing their investment (not only time, but also money) to bans. Bad behavior is discouraged.
  • To be fair, one game without a subscription model (GW2) does have a mature community - that's blind luck though.

I play NWO (which is F2P) and basically EVERYTHING (including new pets/mount added continuously) is a cash grab:

- free access means it is full of bots, gold farmers, spammers and idiots of all kind

- it is a continuous cash grab whatever you do - anything you want to do in game costs money (you could technically earn it but it would take months and months, you are pratically forced into it, examples:

Respec? Pay

Change Name? Pay

Change Appearance? Pay

More characters slots (default 2)? Pay

More bag/bank slots? Pay

Everything in the game is made in a way to move you towards spending money. It is called F2P but guess what? All summed up I found I'm paying more than a sub. Maybe it works for somebody who plays all day and can do infinite grinds, not for me.

And don't let me started on the Auction House, it's like the worst game-breaking thing ever. Why should ever anyone do 50 dungeon runs if everything is readily available on the AH? It basically wrecks the entire PvE content.

For me Subscription is the way to go, that or Pay To Play. Suits me fine - if the game delivers.

good points mate.

Also if F2P is so good like what the kids say, does that mean that WOW private servers has beaten WOW in its game? Why not, private servers do offer cash shops and free gameplay = more subscriber right?