I know it might sound a little bit too early, but the question is there.

oblivions combat system wasnt really challenging as for vanilla. but with mods you were able boost the battle system pretty far.
Creature/NPCs using different styles, different weapons/armor/magic and tactics. Also battle effects and locational damage were possible.

considering skyrims improved battle system, we expect something new.
Wearing certain types of armor gives your character different protection, but the protection was more like its based on the armor value in general,
no matter where your char has been hit. where is the appropriate calculation?
What do I mean by calculation? Some example:
if the physical values determined by speed and material of the used weapon, the anckle, and what part of the armor was hit (like iron plate, chain, leather ), are used,
a locational damage system would be the outcome. Not the value of the whole armour (like iron, steel, elven) actually determines the protection,
but the part you hit or were hit, and the material the armour at that part is made of.
I know this would make a good collision system inevitable. But nothing I heard from Skyrim so far.

I guess it would be pretty impressive and the next step in immersive RPG combat/battle systems. :deal:

One question:
How would you aim?

Without some kind of VATS system aiming with a melee weapon is outright impossible. How would you aim for somebody's arm if not for his ankle? This thing seems to be more about pure luck than strategy and "immersion"...

The same way we always aimed maybe?

Considering the anolog stick or the mouse i wouldn't see a real problem here. inertia and force are two values, and the direction you give.

I vividly remember the answer to this question during Oblivions development. Unless they've changed their mind, they don't want you to be able to die instantly from a headshot, because "some people think their character looks cooler without a helmet". I don't remember the source.

Ofcourse it would be possible to make an option to turn it on/off, but I don't think it's likely bethesda or any other company for that matter would wait til release to announce such a system. Yes there is something similar in Fallout, but the TES series will never be anything close to turn-based(hopefully).

Which was just aiming for the character model itself in the most broad way as possible...

Even if we would have full control over our swings, this would never add any more tactics for the game, because everything would be way too chaotic, there would be no time to assess the situation, to decide where to strike, and this would just end up in pure hack and slash as before.

I didnt meant this combat/battle system to be turn based. but fully animated and in real time. no turn-based, no.
information on skyrim doesnt reveal anything yet.

Aim as always, and I agree on locational damage. I'd like to shoot an arrow into an NPC's foot and have them struggle to walk and when they can't take it anymore try to take it out.

And it has nothing to do with Fallout 3 nor VATs. Yes they allow being able to be tactical in slow-mo but this goes for real-time too. Location damage and decapitation should be in.

However it wouldn't be bloody as a Fallout as some expect. Why?

Because for the last time Fallout excersizes over-the-top violence which it was ment to. Heads blowing off from a single 9mm round, bodies turning to goo. Combat is barely realistic at all.

I would like limb damage, but only do they add a spell that breaks my oppenent's bones.

The only way to do locational damage would be with archery. It just wouldnt work yet with swords and magic because those attacks tend to hit more than one area of the body. Like shoot lighitng at a charcter would make it course through the entire body or chopping diagonally at someones shoulder could damage the neck chest and arms and who knows what else it hits.

This. It would be ridiculous to get too into this discussion, but sword strikes don't just damage flesh. Bone is shattered, organs are damaged, etc. Unless you're talking about a blow to the head, which happens far too often and should technically result in a 1-hit kill, talking about locational damage with melee is useless.

It takes it too far into hack and slash action game territory for me.

Actually, depending on your armor, say plate, a sword blow to the head just gives you a headache.

Stuff that's meant to cleaver armor and blunt weapons, not so much protection.

I never got the point of locational damage. Why shoot them in the leg and slow them down when you can shoot them in the head and kill them?

I know what you meant. Sorry if my formulations are dodgy.


What do you think happens when you cut off someone's head? Bunch of butterflies come out?

There are veins in the human body with enough pressure to squirt blood up to 5 meters.

Excuse my off topic pvssyr.

I wouldnt say so in general. Without protection a single blow from a steel mace would rip off the flesh, the sword would slice through it.
But not with protection & armor, the outome depends totally upon the fight. And I would prefer woundings anyway.
Leather would be ripped to pieces, soft metal would bend. Actually, another thing is you could see the damage on the armor itself,
instead just having an armor value indicating its condition towards zero.

I was referring to the people saying TES's warfare isn't as bloody as Fallout's(Well Bethesda's 3. Doubt they'd comprehend 1 and 2.) and thus less realistic. Your point is true but null.

I don't foresee any real problems. I mean, the combat system would obviously need to be restructured around the more tactical nature of a skirmish, but that's a good thing. I fail to see how offering further tactical options makes this more of a hack and slash action fest than swinging wildly at an opponent's midsection. Ideally, the location based damage would carry over to the player's health as well, and so fights become much less frenzied and much more tactical. Deliberate, cautious styles take precedence over wild, erratic attacks.

At the very least I hope they include headshots. If I shoot a humanoid in the head with an arrow, that better be enough to kill them

Mount and blade.

Actually in Fallout 3 and New Vegas I found it pretty easy to aim for certain parts of the body to do certain effect. For example, I often aimed for the arms simply so I could disarm my enemies and make the overall fight easier. When their defenses were gone, I would go all out on their heads for max damage. I mainly played melee-oriented characters in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, by the way.

On the other hand, what many people are saying is quite true. For one, there's usually not too big of a point to aim for anything other than the head for maximum damage. Why cripple an enemy when you can kill them with the same hit in a different location? The only way that there would be a point is if an enemy can yield to you to stop fighting if they're too damaged or too crippled, which would be great for getting information out of a certain person. If they run away, shoot them in the legs! But if it was the same "kill or be killed" approach in both Oblivion and Fallout 3, then there would be very little point to the whole system.

Mostly I would want it implemented anyway, since the player would be able to experience the crippling effects as well, which adds another small dimension to dealing with damage other than using restoration, drinking potions, or eating food. Maybe another item like the Doctor's Bag from New Vegas would be one of the only way to heal crippled limbs? Anyway, I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if the PC's arms were crippled when trying to fight. Imagine blocking with a crippled shield arm. The reaction times would end up being way off and even if the block worked you would end up taking a good chunk of damage anyway.

good point. thus stealth attacks would be in preference to running ridiculously heroic into an experienced group of grinning battle orks.

this has been done before in many games and its totally doable. for example in dark messiah of might and magic if u hit a sweet spot around the neck (a bit more close to the head) u directly chop the enemy's head and kill him. although it was a bit hard to aim, it was worth it and fun.

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2iRIXOOLu4

Honestly, the only fix I can think of is to make combat much more deadly. Running in and just spamming attacks on your opponents head should be difficult and leave you wide open for solid strikes. And those strikes against you should hurt. Combat should focus more on parrying and counters, waiting for the enemy to make a mistake and then using that mistake to make a critical blow. In this way, arm and leg strikes are advantages because it makes counters, and therefor kill strikes, easier to pull off. And again, the same would be true for your character, protecting yourself becomes priority one.

If this is not implemented then I think they should simply remove head shot damage modifiers. A head strike should be no more damaging than a body strike. Not realistic, and not ideal, but they've already thrown realism out the window by not implementing truly deadly combat. So, if realism is already sacrificed, I'd prefer the more tactical combat option.