No, I started a new game week before last and I really have been able to win it all with those two skills. I picked up speech just to see how overbalanced it can be, and I had a plasma rifle at lvl 4 and hardly any skill. That on top of my Riot gear armor and I was able to take out the entire NCR Correctional Facility with 4 stimpacks. It's pretty ridiculous considering I highly doubt I woulda survived as a gunman with bland Merc Armor. My point is that were they to change those skills to only usable with high enough skill level, it'd be pointless to go anything OTHER than Science/Lockpick first, in which case the rest of the game is just a bore because you already know how you're starting it. Of course you could start with another skill group, but what would be the point? So you could go back to all the places you've been already to loot them?

Why would anyone go there with just Merc Armour? I always seem to be fully kitted out by the time i get there, with NCR Armour on and a nice array of guns, and thats just from looting bodies. Is there even anything much to lockpick at that point anyway? I dont know about hacking because i never use it (never ever ever, i dont like the minigame), but i dont remember being particularly under-equipped at that point.
Also, what difficulty is this on? I never had much trouble clearing this area, but i did occasionally take a few unlucky bullets to the knee and have to reload. You're making it sound like you strolled through with no issues whatsoever.

Did you play on very hard, hardcoe? If not, don't complain. In fact never complain a game is too easy if you don't use the hardest difficulty level, thats what difficulties are meant for.
Since we can aim down the sights in the newer fallouts the weapon skills are not that important anymore. In the old games the combat was turn based and you weren't able to hit anything with a low skill. This is just a flaw to the newer games, the players skill becomes more important than the player characters skill.


These skills are only usable with high enough skill level right now, so I can't see a change needed for it...
You don't need to pick every doors lock or hack every computers terminal to win the game. Fallout is not the game to see everything in one playthrough, if you want to do that you're in need of an other game. Going back for loot? Why? You'd have to be a hardcoe scavenger then.

Maybe I miss your point, but I can't see a problem there at all. Remember Fallout is an RPG after all, you are not going to see/do literally everything in one playthrough, now that would be pointless.

How the hell did you get riot gear at that level... (LR armor...)?

He means the Powder Ganger riot gear.

Yes, I did mean Powder Ganger gear, my bad there. And Plasma rifle was from Nipton, Mayors hall or whatever it was called. Anyhow, my point was that as I was reading, plenty of people on here wanted it changed so that if you're skill wasn't high enough, you can't even attempt to open/hack it. That's just a bit dumb imo. I can understand that since you have a higher lvl Science/Lockpick, it should be MUCH easier to open them. Wheras someone with little to no skill should still be able to open it, but it should be so insanly hard as to have little chance. It makes no sense that you wouldn't try to open it. It's an RPG, the idea is it's your character, and you'd at least attempt to open up everything you could, even if you weren't able to. Maybe after one or two trys you'd quit, but still. And as you previously stated, there are iron sights for people now, further overbalancing the game away from gunmen and more towards techies. My ORIGINAL point was that the people saying the skills should be changed to be useable only by those who have gone into them is a bit ridiculous. YOU said it yourself Minin, it's an RPG. If this were D&D, I might not be able to open the locks and all, but I would damn well make an attempt. Not realize I'm no good at it and just walk away without even trying. What kind of RPG tells you don't bother, you aren't good enough?

Why is opening everything(or even trying it) essential to RPG's? And since you referenced to D&D, Baldurs Gate uses AD&D and it doesnt encourage me to open up everything, well at first I tried but then I learned that traps are very deadly and if you can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there. But I agree, taking away the possibility to even try is stupid, but without proper levels of the used skill it should insanely hard, IMO.

Now I get your point. Yes you should be able to try. So bring back the system of the old fallout games. But also include the possibility of jamming the door, by your unskilled tries. So you have to open it with brute force, or explosives. In the worst case it should stay locked forever.

So the minigame has to go. If you can attempt every lock, with low skill, the players skill will decide not the player characters skill.

Cool I did it with a armored vault suit and a Weathered 10mm pistol... on hard..


Fallout should be Skill based.. Lockpick should be all by chance... you shouldn't be able to use weapons your are not skilled in.. well not used correctly.

Personally, I LOVE to open all the items involved. And I dont mean you absolutely have to open them, but I think it's dumb to not even be given a chance. I love the idea of the door jamming too. I just feel like it needs to be changed for everyone to be able to give it a try, but obviously there should be draw backs for those who aren't good at it. I just want it to be a REAL RPG, since everyone wants to make sure it is. In a real RPG, you could try to do anything. Oh, and the traps going off with certain locks, loved that. Had a friend in D&D who ran through a door instead of letting us pick it, he was impaled by a spear. Hilarious!
And Gecko, thats because you have the powered weapons you START with from Couriers stash. That's not a challenge, that's starting with a super boost. On hard with no weapon starts, I dont imagine you'd have had the same outcome.

I would hate to say it but, skill check it. But make it a roll kind of thing, not just you need so in so levels to even attempt.

I wish we could have a harder thresh hold system but it won't work. Eventually I'll go through enough lock picks to get inside.

I think the OP had something else in mind. Anyone can attempt to pick a lock or hack a computer but only highly skilled individuals can be successful at it (unless dumbluck is on your side). From what I can imagine, let's say you have an hard lock but your LP skill is only 25. You can still pick it, but your lack of skill causes you to break pins more easily. If your skill was higher, you'd get three or four attempts before the pin breaks. That to me balances RP with gameplay.

That's what we already agreed on, on page 2.
The minigame has to go then, when you can give every lock a try with low skill, it's in the player's hand not the player character's. Combine that with reloading and people will heavily abuse that.
If it is only based on the skill, so the player can't influence it, people will stop trying after their 50th reload an come back when their skill level and therefore the chance for picking the lock is higher.

I really like the minigame for lockpicking(in New Vegas) though I do feel that it should be changed somewhat. Making it real time, adding lockpicking kits(like from the originals), making it so you can only unlock very basic locks with a bobby pin and for more complex ones you'll need a kit or something more advanced. I haven't played Skyrim so I can't comment on that, but I agree with being against people being able to pick any lock at any time.

You know, ol' Morrowind had a real-time and chance-based lock-picking system. Every lock had a hidden number for difficulty so there was a bit of threshold limit with the system, you'd get a message saying the "lock is too complex" if your skill was too low and the lock was high-level. Other than that you actually had a chance, might take a lot of tries for some higher level locks but you could still attempt them as long you didn't meet the threshold.

A similar system could be used and it would prevent people from picking higher level locks with a low skill which seems to be the current argument.

Varying qualities of lock-picks also provided bonuses to your chance success.

I think all skill earning should be like it is in Skyrim, where you use it and it increases with the more time you use it. That's realistic

It sounds realistic on paper, but it doesn't work when its implemented. I haven't played Skyrim, but I have played Oblivion and the leveling process just felt like constant grind. A grind can certainly fun when implemented well, but my experience with Oblivion's system just left me deeply unsatisfied and very annoyed. These two franchises need to stay as far away from each other as possible.

In either case this isn't the proper thread to be discussing it.

The level up system in fallout is an abstraction, the intention is not to simulate realism. It does however represent an effective and simple way to improve skills, based on your character's stats and how you want to play. I always found it annoying in Morrowind when i would accidentally level up a skill, and have to level up having ruined my planned skill distribution

Besides, the level up system in skyrim is anything but realistic, if we wanted realism we would have to do away with the arbitrary use of 'levelling' altogether. Also, in a 'realistic' system, you couldnt become a master blacksmith by only ever making Iron Daggers for your entire career

Let's put the realism a bit further. If you get shot in the gut, you fall down and have to slowly crawl to where ever you think there is someone who could help you, and when finally there (provided you didn't bleed to death on the road and needed to restart because in realistic world you can not save your progress) you face a year of rehabilitation, unless your "doctor" uses unclean tools and gives you bloodpoisoning which kills you anyway. If you get shot in the leg, same procedure, but your leg may need to be amputated and for the rest of the game, you will be an invalid. If a shrapnel punctures your eyes... you get the picture. That's realistic - more so than learning to shoot and the gun then magically producing more damage.

Yes but not fun.

Grinding a skill repeatedly to get its benefits, or accidently getting a skill up and messing with the level of your character. No.

I prefer skill points being manually placed. That way if you screw around with grenades you don't just accidently get your explosives up when you're trying to make a gun slinger.

yes in tactics you broke the gun you dident have skill in when you used em...

You do gain experience from picking locks. That's sort of realistic.

In Tactics if you don't have the requirements needed you can't use the weapon.

In the orginals there is always the critical chance that the weapon would just break.

This should definitely be introduced. Its more realistic than the current system.

I agree having bobby pins unlock everything is stupid agreed on that part but "make it so we have a chanceto unlock any lock no matter our skill" is ludacris I should'nt be able to open an armoury door that hasn't been opened in 50 years with a bobby pin and 20 lockpick.
And since when did dice rolls = rpg itshould be stat based if anything not random chance .