Yes but in real life a doorknob lock on a rotting 200 year-old door isn't going to keep you from getting through it. You could kick it down or, provided you have enough time, remove the doorknob completely.

Yeah, I liked it as well, a good example is taking the front door at the germantown police station, "where you rescue the big town peeps" Very Hard" door, but if you get in it cuts that mission time in half and you get a far better tactical position.


because in real life we distribute skill points right?

Nope, I also invest in Lockpicking, Science, Speech, and Repair. I have come to REALLY enjoy lockpicking, it's SO simple, and yet so fun to playwith all the time.

The point is that when a lock is 'very hard' you cant even attempt to unlock it until your lock-pick skill is 100. Unlike Oblivion where the different difficulties actually just meant how difficult it is to pick the lock. It didn't dictate whether or not you could even attempt to pick it, you always could.

Yes but then the door would already be open and all the stuff gone....

We should be allowed to buy a lockpicking set that'll crack low-tier locks at a high level.

WTF lol. Not my point, I meant that the system could use some changes. Not necessarily the ones I said but something to make it more approachable.

Lockpicking is fine I just wish you could attempt al ock at any level like oblivion except the higher levels are more difficult. Also leveling lockpick should make it easier to find the sweet spot. As for hacking it needs a complete overhaul as it's really tedious and time consuming.

i'd be fine if they just made it possible to lockipick anything regardless of difficulty, cause not even being able to try did irritate me a bit in FO3,other then that i dont really have a problem with the lockpicking system. as far as the hacking is concerned...i dont hate it but i don't really LIKE it either. id be fine with them changing that system altogether, HOW they do it....well idk. i can't think of a better way at the moment

If they're going to make lockpicking and science hackable with skill magazines they should've just scrapped those skills altogether and made the minigames more challenging

While I do like this approach better, there was still an inherent problem with it. That being, in Oblivion, the lockpicking minigame was way too easy. Any experienced player knows there's a certain pattern to go by in order to pick a lock, and once you figure out that pattern, the security skill becomes essentially useless. I could pick a very hard lock on my first attempt with 5 security just because I know the pattern. Kind of ruins the purpose of leveling security.

Fallout 3's minigame is better in this aspect, as there is no visual pattern along with an audio one, but it's still relatively easy at times. If limitations were removed, I could still probably pick a very hard lock at 5 lockpick on my first try, only difference is that it would probably take longer.

I do think limitations for hacking make a lot more sense though. Explanation being your science skill isn't high enough to know how to operate the OS in the current terminal in order to hack it. Liken it to a Windows user trying to learn how to use DOS or Linux.

hopefully its a little different in NV, in FO3 you pretty much had to max out lockpick and science if you wanted to explore. and thats in addition to having to max repair and at least one combat skill. with the huge skill point nerf in NV, hopefully you dont need to be at 100 to get past very hard locks/hacks. if you still do theyre severely limiting how you can make your character.

Yeah I know what you mean in oblivion I could do it with my eyes closed. i just listened for the right sound and even the very hard locks were child's play. I've lost my skill at it since I haven't touched oblivion in a long time though.

^^^ said what i was just thinking. if this IS the case, they'll need to raise the level cap through DLC/patch OR go back to the perk-per-level system, otherwise it's kinda (really) unfair to the player.

EDIT: lol i failed at making my point.... i meant to just agree with Ka1n's point about the skill points,not sure how i brought Perks into this. i shouldnt be allowed to type past 1 a.m.

I suppose it's impossible for any game to please everyone, so your views are valid from that standpoint... but I personally disagree with you. I think the F3 lockpick and hack system work perfectly.

You mention not liking the fact that a skill is required to pick a lock. You have to remember this is a role playing game, skills are a big part of it. If the player could just do anything right from the start there wouldn't be a need for skills, and it wouldn't be a role playing game. Also, think of all those locked doors as a reward for you investing those points. If you didn't have to invest those points, if everyone could simply open the lock... well, again it would detract from the role playing element.

If I had my way they'd get rid of the mini game entirely and make it solely dependant on your skill as in Morrowind. But most people like the mini games these days, they like to feel like they're actually doing something so I can accept the mini games. But I think having an associated skill requirement in association with the mini game is important.

I don't see the point in being about to shoot the lock because you may as well just do away with locked objects altogether. The same goes for a Oblivion skeleton key. That ruined picking locks in that game because you just hit Auto Attempt a few times and the lock would open. No effort. No fun.

A lock picking perk might be the better of your suggestions (ties in with a role playing game) but I do think the skill system works better.

Some kind of single use object is a good idea, but only if they were rare or very expensive.

So you and I are obviously different types of gamers, but all gamers are different and there would be nothing at all wrong with them releasing a DLC or incorporating a set of options. More options are good (I'm still hoping Rock Star will release a control option for Red Dead Redemption so you don't have to hold the damn A button down to run). But I hope they don't remove the current system entirly.

what they should do is reduce the skill you need for very hard stuff from 100 to 75. im sure they can think of something else for 100.

there, everyone's happy.

hopefully they already did that. with the huge skill point nerf its not hard to believe they might've changed it a little.

I don't know whether to be depressed or amused that you think they're going to make any single thing easier in a game that can best be described as a horrifying overreaction to criticism of Fallout 3.

easier? who said anything about easier?

I've always thought a pry bar and some bolt cutters would be awesome. Pry open lockers and footlockers, cut padlocks, snip through chain-link fences... These things should all be very easy to pick and thus these items would not negate the lockpick/hack skill and would take up weight in your inventory. Vaults, safes, high-security doors... these sorts of things should be the only ones that require 100 skill to open. Needing to be some sort of master thief to get into a wall locker is a bit ridiculous.

Explosives with a chance to destroy items within (smaller chance with higher level of explosives) does seem like a good alternative as well. You are then rewarded for your skill in explosives, but you run the risk of destroying the contents.

In an RPG about choices and alternative solutions I like the idea of having multiple options for overcoming obstacles. Locks and computers should be no exception. Balance would need to be maintained, but with a little bit of thought and foresight that shouldn't be impossible to accomplish.

You know how in FO3, you could find books that could permanently boost a certain skill?
What if they had like a temporary boost for a certain skill so if you came to a door or safe you couldn't get into, you could boost your skill really quick.
If could be like "magazines" or something.



edited for grammar and maximum sarcasm.

No it just seems Tess stinks at this mini game.

I'm intrigued. Care to ealborate on this?


On topic: I would've liked the skillchecks to come back, but since they are not, they should've at least add some variety to the minigames. Different locks different minigame, etc.

Yep - it only proves that she is not a good thief. (Yes thats a compliment)

I had no problem with the lock-picking mini game, I found that once I mastered the picking I could go through doors without really thinking about it much. I do however think that Obsidian missed an opportunity in not taking modder input from http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2917. Not only did this give us the option to blow-open doors, boxes, etc - it did so in a stylish way with lots of different ways to blow through a door, consequences for those standing around the door and the like. I loved that mod, it "completed" the door story for me in that just about everything I could plan to come across with a door, I had an option for dealing with it.

Ahh well, I'm 100% sure this mod will be coming back in some form with F:NV, and I plan to load it the day it does. Still the vanilla lock-pick system really isn't "bad", its just something to master and deal with - or mod it like we did.

Mentats.

I agree. Especially now that maxing 5 skills is a stretch. Having 200 points for maybe a couple unique guns is ridiculous. The older games (dont remember which) let you open locks with a strength check, but with a % chance to destroy loot.

I think if their going to have minigames they might as well get rid of the skill points. Just making the mini game harder makes more sense. But they would also need to fix the lockout exploit. The perks would actually be usefull then also.