Put simply there is no reason to put any perks into lockpick, even with a thief character. Lockpicks are abundant and even master locks are not that hard to open. Other than a higher chance for treasure, which is not worth 5-6 perks to get, what is the point of the entire tree?

So... what can be changed? I doubt Bethesda will patch it, so maybe a mod can do so. Any idea? Straight up making you get the perks to open that level of chest (novice perk lets you pick novice chest, master perk lets you pick master chests, etc.) seems a little TOO tough, considering it would make lockpick an essential perk tree for everyone who wants good loot. So what is the compromise?

Well, you already hit on the main problem, lockpicks are too abundant. The other problem is that you don't even have to pick the locks because you can just have your follower do it, the dark elf follower you get in whiterun can pick almost anything you come across, you don't even have to use picks. It completely invalidates the skill imo.

I think they should have just done it fallout style and limit lockpicking based on tiers. Atleast then you would have to spend perks in the tree to open novice lockpicking, apprentice, expert, etc.

Only 1 thing can be done (I know many would hate it but it's a solution) :

A system that forbits those with Low-Level lockpicking skill to even try to lockpick the locks on higher security locked chests/doors. For example, if you don't have the Adept Lockpicking perk, you can't even try to pick an Adept locked chest.

The easiest solution would be to just Increase the value of picks from 7g to 50g and make them a lot rarer than they are.

Or just make the difficulty scale harder. At low lockpicking skill, it can be extremely difficult to pick a master lock...That's not right. It should be extremely difficult to pick an ADEPT lock, and nigh-impossible to pick a master lock. Possible...just barely so, though.


Although with the number of perks available, it seems like a waste to use them on lockpicking regardless of whether its worth it or not.

Picks costing 50 gold would be utterly inexplicable. It's a little piece of metal, not some hard-to-create precision-crafted tool like the lock itself.

i wasnt a big fan of the fallout "you cant even attempt this lock right now.......go away dont waste your time.....nothing to see here move along" method of out right restricting you from even trying but i think a pseudo version might be in order here. perhaps you can only pick locks that are one level above or 20 skill points above or something along that lines. that way you can still pick higher level locks but you would need to make or buy lockpicking potions in order to attempt even adept locks at low levels. unlike lockpicks, lockpicking potions are very rare to find at stores and i still havent discovered an ingredient that has lockpicking in alchemy although ive never really gotten alchemy past 50 or so.

Well, Novice should always be available, otherwise you would be pretty screwed at the lockpicking tutorial. Not to mention being required to magi-learn how to use the skill before you even can use it would be a bit of an immersion break. Especially when you go to trainers and buy lessons in Lockpicking, only to discover you can't use anything you have learned because you can't even pick a novice lock. Makes no sense.

I would say that those specific perks should become two-tiered starting with Apprentice locks. Novice stays as it is, but further on, and you will need to first pick up the Apprentice, Adept, etc. perks if you wish to even be able to pick that lock (at a slightly reduced skill requirement, though) and the second tier would be what the perks currently do.

Gives you reason to invest in the skill, as well as some extra benefits. This would, of course, need to be tied into a reduction in lockpick quantities, because as said, they are too plentiful right now.

The tiered system is not balancing, it's just arbitrarily limiting. What you need to do is make the master locks much more demanding than they are. The in-game books have dozens of ways Tamrielic people have done so. Creative solutions, not "forbid" solutions, thank you.

Yeah, you're right I didn't even think about that. But still, being able to pick a master lock at 20 skill and no points invested in the tree is [censored] stupid. I agree with the rest of your post.

simple solution:when you fail lockpicking theres chance both lockpick AND the lock breaks. possibly the chance of lock breaking could be mitigated by lockpicking skill

the solution is so easy.

Remove the lock picking skill.

Add skeleton key quest.

I pretty much agree with the two tier system but with an additional restriction (lock jam).

The lock jam is basically a limit of how many attempts you can have with a lock before it jams and can't be picked again unless you have the same tier perk i.e. you've jammed an Adept level lock using up all of you 6 tries. You need to unlock the Adept level perk you unjam that lock. Locks in populated areas are unjammed after 24 hours by NPCs.

Get rid of Novice perk.
You can pick Novice and Apprentice without any perks.
You need Apprentice perk to try for Adept. It also greatly reduces Novice and Apprentice lock challenge, these locks never jam and you can pick Apprentice jammed locks.
You need need Adept to try for Expert which follows the same principles.
You need Expert for Master.
Master does the same and also automatically unlocks up to expert level locks.

The number of tries per tier before jamming is (with same tier perk/without perk):

Novice (12/8)
Apprentice (10/6)
Adept (10/6)
Expert (8/4)
Master (8/4)

make it so u have different lockpicks 4 different chests like if u try to use a novice lp on master it either break immediately even if u find right spot due to lock being tighter or cant even turn it cuz pick not strong enough that way true thiefs will invest in craft like smithing lp or upgradeing them u could even enchant some with like frost or fire a pull some macgeyver stuff melt lock shatter lock like in movies

What we can do, is make it so that a chest has only a limited number of times it can be picked. If you use up the allotted number of times, the lock will be jammed and the chest then cannot be opened.

If you try to reload or exit to try again, the exact position of the unlock spot will change.

Chests containing quest items can't be jammed, like how important npcs cannot be killed.

So the perks are now more important.

If you are good enough at lockpicking you will not need a single perk in that tree. The only perk in that tree worthwhile is the extra weight one, but you have to go threw several useless perks first. Again this only applys if you are good or fairly good at lockpicking. But if you roleplay a character that must have it choose it. :biggrin:

^ This.

Start over and don't pick any perks into lock picking? I break at least 10 picks on master locks often, chump change.


Ironically you'll end up with the same skill levels but where you put your perks is the only difference... kinda stupid but some jack azz might've thought it was funny as a way to get players to play longer when I sure as hell don't want to start over often.


http://skyrimcalculator.com/#6330
Here's a calculator

There's a simple solution. Make locks automatically reset position every time a pick breaks, unless you have the perk for the current lock difficutly.

So if you have the Novice Lockpick perk, Novice locks work just like they do now, but if you try an apprentice or higher lock, the lock position will change everytime you break a pick. Locks 1 or 2 levels above you would still be possible but cost a lot more picks, and locks higher than that would require sheer luck or hundreds of picks.

That way you have a clear incentive to get the perks, but higher level locks aren't completely blocked off. And it would also help with the overabundance of lockpicks.

It shouldn't have a perk tree at all, fixed.

Rather lockpicking and pickpocketing should be combined back into security. Pickpocketing has got to be the hardest thing in the game to level.

And with that, there is no problem. Just don't put points into it.

The problem with not letting people attempt locks or reducing the number of picks in the game is that both of those drastically cut down on the number of opportunities to raise your skill in lockpicking, which actually ends up punishing the people who do want to perk up lockpicking just as bad as those who open all the locks without perks.

What they need to do with it is simply making it not all about just one minigame, there need to be other worthwhile applications for having the skill and being high in the perk tree. The tree should have been something like "Mechanics", and should have included stuff like setting traps, like bear traps that you can apply poisons to for example, or allow the use of crossbows. There would have been a lot of ways to make this a really worthwhile and cool tree.

Or they would have had to make the lockpicking minigame a lot more difficult, something along the lines of the Deus Ex Human Revolution hacking minigame, with locks that have dangerous enchantments, poison needles and other traps in them, or trigger an alarm when they are impropperly opened...


Oh well...

Picks need to break WAY more often. Right now I can get through a master lock with about 15-25 picks by very gingerly working my way around the lock. To be honest, I should have almost zero chance of getting into master without breaking at least 100 picks.

The perks should then make you less likely to break a pick. so that you can work around with one of them longer. Only advanced perks should make the "sweet spot" bigger. Lastly, picks should not be any harder to find, because they are relatively easy to make. A lockpick is a very simple thing. What's difficult is figuring out how to use it properly. Thus, breaking them all the time and having an impossibly unlikely chance of finding that sweet spot are the solutions.

In fact,I think the perks are useless too but in the exact opposite way.

I understand the game's logic,but I ususally have hard time with picking locks and break about 5 picks when picking expert locks.(skill level 86)
I took the perks that make it easier to open locks,but I see no damn difference.I want my money -ehm,perk points- back.

I was actually planning to start a thread on this,so I'd appreciate it if somebody could tell me what those perks actually do?

lockpicks worth 50 gold, alot rarer, would certainly stop novices chucking 20 of them at a master lock until they accidentally crap a diamond

Meh. More perk points for something more interesting/useful.

I see why they removed unlock spells, so you could work on your lockpicking skill and perk tree, but IMO that was a waste. Should have kept athletics and given it 3 trees... one with carry more stuff, carry even more, etc etc... one with jump and fall perks, and another with boosts to stamina or cost reduction in power attacks, etc.

I don't mind picking a few locks but it hardly deserves it's own perk gree and a skill slot. There aren't even that many locked chests in Skyrim that I've seen.