Any idea as to whether there are restrictions on being able to pick locks like past Fallout games?

Fallout 3 and New Vegas required that you had to be a certain level in Lockpicking in order to be able to attempt it. For instance you had to be level 75 or above in the Lockpicking skill to be able to attempt to pick a "hard" lock.

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim on the other hand would let you attempt to pick any lock regardless of what level you were in the Lockpicking skill. You could be only level 5 in Lockpicking and still try to pick a "Very Hard" lock. Though it would be considerably more difficult.

Since the skills have been replaced with this new perk system, I wonder how this will work out. Lockpicking seems to be in the Perception tree at level 1.

Will we actually have to invest in ranks in the Lockpicking perk in order to be able to even try to pick locks?

Same goes for Science and the computer hacking ability also. In past Fallout games you had to have reached the required level in Science to even be able to try hacking a terminal.

I assume it will work the same as 3/NV just that the skill points thresholds has been replaced with perk ranks

I'm putting money on that, though I do have a preference to my personal skill vs. game mechanic requirements.

To me, a lock is a lock. Then again TES and Fallout operate under different rules from each other, so it's just a minor nitpick.

I dunno, I'd really like it to be open instead of locked by rank, especially if the ranks have level requirements. Like, if unskilled hackers only had two password attempts and each rank of the Hacker perk added one more before the terminal resets.

Actually, I'm willing to bet it will be open. Consider that not everyone's SPECIAL arrangement will have access to the perks, and each rank will have level requirements. I don't think Bethesda would restrict it that much.

Brilliant suggestion about ranks for the Hacker perk! If you're okay with it, I would like to incorporate that into the chart on http://vault111.com

Um, you can do whatever you want, but I still have my doubts on what the Hacker perk does. Especially if Bethesda's trying to make each perk different - additional ranks might remove duds, or add the functionality o the Computer Whiz perk. (although honestly, I'd rather Bethesda just designed around the fact that we can save-scum or exit the terminals to reset the passwords, and have it reset the passwords automatically when we run out of attempts)

Awesome! And don't worry, there'll also be a few additional details in there to keep it varied

I somehow suspect that Fallout 4 will still have the Very Easy, Easy, Average, Hard, and Very Hard rankings for lockpicking and hacking. Very Easy would be the 12345 password that lazy people use to secure their homes while Very Hard would be C!f4xbv%&Pg4@+9a6dQZ25a*L passwords that might be used for the Pentagon. There is no way that a regular person would be able to hack into the Pentagon computers while it would be possible for them to hack into someone's personal computer

Of course they would, its called strengths and weaknesses, you really think a int 1 guy should know how to crack computer code?

That would depend on their restrictions. A Special of only 4 is still below-average in terms of ability, so it's not that demanding. Not allowing us to open medium locks until level 7-10 wouldn't be too restrictive, but restricting medium locks to level 25-30 would. Depends on the leveling speed and what levels they require.

Additionally, you have to take into account the usefulness of the perks. If you don't really need them to open the best locks, almost no one would take them, making them almost pointless. On the other hand, if Bethesda drastically increases the difficulty of locks and makes each rank of the perks very useful, essentially nothing's changed. Characters who only care about medium locks and lower would only go halfway into the perks while characters who want to pick the hardest locks without spending an hour or so on each one, would go all the way. Almost exactly like the old system in FO3. If Bethesda chooses to go somewhere in between where you could go halfway into the perks and still do fairly well opening the hardest locks, then almost no one would take the higher ranks and half of each perk would be useless.

We might still be able to open/hack everything without needing these perks, but I doubt Bethesda would make them fully or partially useless, so we'll probably end up spending the same number of perks in these skills that we would have if they didn't change things this way.

I'm hoping it's more akin to Skyrims system where it just makes it easier to work. I'm also wondering if the SPECIAL will have any impact on ease of hacking/lockpicking. Also I guess it could factor in for the "force lock" chance.

I'd prefer that different lock difficulties are locked out by perks but I'm not totally against the Elder Scrolls route of letting you try any lock. The only issue is that I could easily crack the hardest locks in Skyrim without much skill, if they increase the difficulty of higher level locks it'll be ok.

Yeah, that's the issue. Like you said, in Skyrim, by my second playthrough, I could pick ANY lock with only a skill level of 5 in Lockpicking. I'd just break a couple of lockpicks on the harder difficulty locks before finding the sweet spot.

I'm really not sure WHAT could be done to completely fix the system. Like others have said, the way Fallout 3 did it, by making you have 25, 50, or 75 Skill, etc. for the different lock levels worked okay, but it made any other points in that skill useless. But from what we saw with Skyrim, Bethesda wasn't entirely happy with that lockpicking system, so they tweaked it to let you TRY any lock, regardless of level. Your skill just made the correct "zones" on the lock larger and easier to find. But with enough personal experience with the lock system, you could baby and feather open any lock if you were willing to sacrifice a few lockpicks.

One solution I can think of is this:

1) Increase the difficulty of all locks. So the zone on a Very Hard lock is an almost impossible couple of pixels for a character that doesn't have the Lockpicking Perk.

2) Drastically reduce the number of bobby pins / lockpicks available. Make them hard and rare to come by, but more durable. The Perk system could be set up so that if picking locks you are trained for, you'll almost never break a bobby pin, it's just a matter of patience. Make the likely-hood of breaking a bobby pin jump up considerably with locks higher than your attained Perk levels. This way, opening a Very Hard lock is possible if you are willing to sacrifice a lot of bobby pins - but with the scarcity of them, it will very likely be impossible to do this every time. You won't be able to continuously open locks above your Perk level, but you can open a few of them if willing to sacrifice a hard-to-get resource like the bobby pins.

3) Solve the "limited bobby pins" problem for players dedicated to Lockpicking by making the final Perk level grant them a skeleton key ability where they get a bobby pin that never breaks.

The hardest part of this system would be balancing the number of bobby pins in an open-world, and communicating to the player that, "Hey! These are a limited resource not easily replenished!"

I really like this idea. Would be a very solid way of solving the whole lockipicking problem

I hope it is more like Skyrim.. I always found the ranks to be utterly useless, and stupid..

. Not useless, I'd imagine the point was to keep people from just saving and trying again. That'sthe problem with being able to attempt to pick any lock. You really ddon't have to invest any points in the skill as you can just quick save and load till you pick it.

It's a single player game.. Why does anyone care if I save and reload?

Some do, some don't. I'm still trying to figure out the one's who do care. It's like there's some sort of unspoken code of honor at play.

Laughs and nods.. Ah well.. I'll have to deal with the inane ranks if they are there.. If not I will be happier.

There isn't a way to prevent save-scumming without putting weird restrictions on saving that no one wants. Some people just can't help themselves if save-scumming is an option. I would assume they want protection from their own weak temptation.

Yeah it makes zero sense for some to get all pissy about how others play in a single player game lol

Save scumming? pfftt...It's a video game for Christ sake lol

It's funny because both those passwords are actually really easy for computer algorithms to guess, the most secure passwords are strange phrases and combinations of words that are harder for computers to try and figure out.

I'm betting it will be more like Skyrim than FO3 or NV. Anyone can attempt any lock or terminal at any time, but your ranks in the perk (if you have any) will make it easier to find the sweet spot or password, and also to force open. I never bothered to put any perk points into this skill tree in Skyrim, and if it works the same in FO4 than I won't be wasting any perk points in it in FO4 either. Just gives me more points to focus on more lethal options.

Which is why I used a 26 character password rather than a more reasonable password, but it is funny how a easily remembered phrase is harder to crack than complete gibberish. Another problem with those gibberish passwords is that most people will have to write it down in an easily accessed location by the computer. I guess a really difficult puzzle password would be a way to restrict the amount of people that could break in, but you would also have to be one of those people and spending 30 minutes to enter your password just to read your email seems completely pointless.

I don't think it's so much that anybody cares,just makes perks/skills/ etc for lock picking and hacking pointless. maybe a better way to do it would be a system like FO3's but also have some sort of "automatic pick/hack" tool that would make picking locks before the required skill level is reached possible, but not something you could do often. just make the tools rare, and unable to be purchased. nice reward for exploration.