First of all, I'd like to see lockpicking become real-time again, as in Morrowind: even for the master thief, picking a hard lock should take time, which increases the dramatic tension and the risk of getting caught.

Second, since we can probably expect a lockpicking minigame, it might as well be a good one. I found a video of a very interesting puzzle game by an indie dev, where you have to get a ball through mechanisms you can only see indirectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N91lVqCSNc

An adaptation of this to lockpicking would have great potential. They should ask for submissions from this guy to see if he can design a good lockpicking minigame based on the same concept.

Edited to add my slightly modified second post:
I like having a skill-based element too, it's a CRPG after all, otherwise you lose all the character-building aspect. I'm not sure about the issue of limiting certain locks by level, because to balance the game you can't give the player lvl 20 loot at lvl 1, and some players become so good at minigames that it stops giving any challenge (then they find the lockpick skill useless).

Proposed solution: Taking as a reference the video above, design progressively more intricate mechanisms for locks. I don't think it should try to mimic too much real locks, having to get a lockpick-shape object through instead of the ball seen in the video would be fine. Just assume all locks are a bit magical... Not all locks of the same difficulty need to be the same, either. Actually they should be randomized somewhat, otherwise players will just learn the different models by heart.
At lvl 1 the player can't see the inside mechanisms at all, but an easy lock should be simple enough that you can open it just by playing around in it. Hard/Very Hard Mechanisms, on the other hand, should be so intricate that a lvl 1 player has no hope of opening them because they lack too much info. On top of that, they could include magical trap triggers or lockpick breakers that you must avoid with your lockpick, something impossible to do blind.
Then as lockpicking skill perks, give the player progressively better means of probing the inside of the lock, a bit like the flying robot in the video I linked. A grandmaster thief (100 lockpicking) could maybe even see clearly the whole mechanism, but would still face the challenge of time as complicated locks take time to work.

As far as magical lockpicking goes, I always found the Oblivion system lame in comparison to the minigame. Just cast the spell, and bam, it's open. What would be interesting would be a different version of the minigame: have the player work the lock, but make him use different, magical tools. So maybe instead of using a lockpick, you could fly a little ball of energy inside the lock, and interact with the mechanisms that way. Also the ways of seeing the lock's insides would change.

Finally I'm favorable to lock bashing, but I've never seen it done well up to now, in any mod or game. Given enough time and proper tools (sledgehammer, crowbar), you should presumably be able to force open most locks. However the noise should attract people and enemies like hell. Major inconvenient: hitting a container like mad has a good chance of breaking fragile content. There's also the problem of leaving evidence: seeing a forced container or door should be instant theft alarm, while a clean lockpicked chest won't be noticed unless someone is looking for the stolen contents. And for game balance's sake and since we're after all living in a magic world, important containers or doors should have magic traps, alarms and reinforcements that make bashing them down pretty impossible (though superhuman strenght might beat a low level of magical reinforcement).

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Other lockpicking system videos people have posted:
Two Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22jpO7eQRS0&feature=related
Mafia II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS96dT8LZS4

Yeah!

:D

Yea, The Oblivion lock picking was no skill if you got the hang of it.

it required more skill then Morrowind, in that you just stabbed the lock and it opened

I personally like the system that Two Worlds 2 adopted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22jpO7eQRS0&feature=related

It's time based, and your lockpick skill only increases the time you have available (though if you don't level up lockpicking you just barely have time to pick the most simple of locks).

it seems like that would get very frustrating.

I'm fine with the Oblivion lockpick style. But I actually like the Fallout one more.

I enjoyed the lockpicking in Oblivion quite a bit, but once I mastered it, there was no reason to ever pick it as a skill. Very hard locks are routine for me now, and slowing the tumblers down only messes me up.

I think it should be a real-time mini-game, as suggested, and you should be able to take damage and get arrested while picking. But no Fallout style barring you from making an attempt based on skill level, that blows.

And before someone brings it up: Having success be determined purely by character skill and die-roll is idiotic. I can't stand the thought of just pressing the button for an attempt and a "success" or "failure" message coming on screen. Control is good.

See that's the problem though. Bethesda never decided whether they wanted the game to be about skill or stat management. If I purposely neglected intelligence (or whatever governed lockpicking) and never invested in the skill, I shouldn't be able to get around it by being extra good at a mini-game. To that end, I actually enjoyed the Morrowind system better in that it made a firm decision to be stat-based and went about its business. Oblivion tried to do it both ways with the net result of being exploitable and watering down Character building.

I wouldn't mind a minigame as long as it utilized your character's skill more and the player's skill less. Or somehow make a really fun minigame which I admit I can't think of one for lockpicking.

In the entire world this is the only thing I want transfered from Fallout 3 to Skyrim. I want Fallout 3's Lockpick mini game.

I don't know. I just don't feel it's in the spirit of an RPG to have minigames. skill checks are a perfectly fine system.
I would rather they keep the skill checks or do something entirely different, than returning to minigames.

How did that work, by the way? I watched a friend do it once, and it looked realistic and stat based.

That was the main problem with Oblivion - you could pick VH locks with 5 security. You've got to get the balance right.

Why would u take damage when you are lock picking? how does that make any sense?

It makes sense if someone is attacking you while you're trying to pick the lock I have to agree with some of the other people here, the lockpicking from FO3 was probably the best one!

Yeah I'm more of a fan of the stat based system.

The one thing I'd want changed is to have locks that are either too good to pick via magic spells or are protected against magic spells. I don't mind there being an open lock spell, I do mind that one spell from a school of magic that does a whole crap ton more trumping a skill that really only does one thing, pick locks.

How about you need certain skill thresholds to be able to activate the lockpicking minigame depending on the lock level. With higher level (better) lockpicks you can make up for lower level skill, but the minigame itself becomes harder.

Say you need 25 for easy locks, 50 for average, 75 for hard and 100 for master (only a few in the game but very, very good loot or quest implications). I have 50 lockpicking. The lockpicks go novice - adept - journeyman - master. Because I have 50 lockpicking I can use a novice lockpick on easy or average locks with no penalty. However, to be able to open hard locks I have to equip a journeyman lockpick and it comes with a penalty. The penalty decreases the higher skill I have until I have 75 lockpick.

Now the minigame itself I think should be real time and involve manipulating pins directly. If I push a pin too far then the pick breaks. When I have the level requirement to open a lock with any lockpick I can just push the pin up and it will lock in the right place automatically, with higher level lockpicks moving the pins faster (this is a videogame. It need not be rooted entirely in reality). However, if I am opening a lock above my level by using a higher level pick then I have to listen carefully for sound cues to know when to release. The bigger the discrepancy between my lockpicking level and the lock level the smaller the margin I have in which to release the pin, and the later in that margin the sound cue occurs.

This seems to offer a nice balance between hard and fast stats and player skill :shrug: absolute novices would be able to invest in a (very expensive or rare) master lockpick and open any lock, but their lower skill level makes the minigame extremely hard and the pick more susceptible to breaking.

A higher lockpick skill should also mean that one can move the pins faster in locks that they can already open "automatically" for speed in stealth scenarios.

Add the ability for my barbarian to just completely bash in the lock with his war hammer and I'll be happy.

I hate stat thresholds too because it only makes stats good in chunks. So getting my lockpicking from 64 to 65 doesn't give me a 1% advantage.... it just makes me X number of skill points away from seeing improvement. With absolutely no marginal gains, it simply delays the experience of feeling better at something.

No. Ultimately Bethesda (and for that matter, RPG fans) must decide if the game is primarily stat driven or primarily skill driven.

Did you read the rest of my post? There are fairly big benefits to improving the skill marginally.

As I said I don't want the world pausing when you pick the lock, it removes dramatic tension and a lot of the challenge. I like having a skill-based element too, it's a CRPG after all, otherwise you lose all the character-building aspect. I'm not sure about the issue of limiting certain locks by level, because to balance the game you can't give the player lvl 20 loot at lvl 1, and it's always hard to gauge how good players are gonna get at the minigame. For Oblivion Bethesda clearly underestimated some players, but not me. I personally still have trouble picking hard or very hard locks when I start a new game .

Proposed solution: Taking as a reference the video I posted in the OP, design progressively more intricate mechanisms for locks. I don't think it should try to mimic too much real locks, having to get a lockpick-shape object through instead of the ball seen in the video would be fine. Just assume all locks are a bit magical... Not all locks of the same difficulty need to be the same, either. Actually they should be randomized somewhat, otherwise players will just learn the different models by heart.
At lvl 1 the player can't see the inside mechanisms at all, but an easy lock should be simple enough that you can open it just by playing around in it. Hard/Very Hard Mechanisms, on the other hand, should be so intricate that a lvl 1 player has no hope of opening them because they lack too much info. On top of that, they could include magical trap triggers or lockpick breakers that you must avoid with your lockpick, something impossible to do blind.
Then as lockpicking skill perks, give the player progressively better means of probing the inside of the lock, a bit like the flying robot in the video I linked. A grandmaster thief (100 lockpicking) could maybe even see clearly the whole mechanism, but would still face the challenge of time as complicated locks take time to work.

As far as magical lockpicking goes, I always found the Oblivion system lame in comparison to the minigame. Just cast the spell, and bam, it's open. What would be interesting would be a different version of the minigame: have the player work the lock, but make him use different, magical tools. So maybe instead of using a lockpick, you could fly a little ball of energy inside the lock, and interact with the mechanisms that way. Also the ways of seeing the lock's insides would change.

Finally I'm favorable to lock bashing, but I've never seen it done well up to now, in any mod or game. Given enough time and proper tools (sledgehammer, crowbar), you should presumably be able to force open most locks. However the noise should attract people and enemies like hell. Major inconvenient: hitting a container like mad has a good chance of breaking fragile content. There's also the problem of leaving evidence: seeing a forced container or door should be instant theft alarm, while a clean lockpicked chest won't be noticed unless someone is looking for the stolen contents. And for game balance's sake and since we're after all living in a magic world, important containers or doors should have magic traps, alarms and reinforcements that make bashing them down pretty impossible (though superhuman strenght might beat a low level of magical reinforcement).

It would be nice to be able to force locks open for more strength/endurance based characters. It seems odd that my orc with a giant battle axe can't get through a small wooden door >.<

I don't want a mini-game, at least not one that you're obliged to do in order to pick a lock. I appreciate that some people like them, but I have poor co-ordination and mini-games can completely ruin a game for me (ME2 is an example of this, and Alpha Protocol was even worse - I couldn't finish the tutorial area, complete waste of ￡30). So it should be optional, with the other option being to have success based upon your character skill - this is an RPG after all.

Great ideas. I hope they go with something like this; lockpicking is one thing Bethesda has had some trouble with mastering, I think. In Morrowind it was just ridiculous as you poked your lockpick at a door and got "failed" messages because your skill wasn't high enough, but in Oblivion you could pick all the hardest locks with no lockpicking skill with some practice. They need to have some sort of balance between player skill and character skill.

I'm down with that, but like my problem with magic there should be doors/locks that are unbashable/magicable that only skill with the lockpicks can handle. This is mainly because you get to do other things with magic or blunt weapons, lockpicking only picks locks.