Ooh, first gripe thread in 160+ hours! I adore this game, but this is really starting to get to me though.

Why am I being *forced* to pick locks to complete Warrior Guild (companions) quest? Several quests given to you by the companions have you rescuing a person from a random cave where you need to break them out of a cage. But instead of supplying the key on a tougher "boss" enemy, or hiding the key somewhere, you're forced to pick the cage's lock with no alternative. What kind of dumb ass design is this?

Another example: I completed an investigation quest in a city last night, where I had to find proof of a character's misdeeds inside her house. But instead of having an option to persuade/intimidate a guard or the jarl to help me get inside the house the ONLY options I've served are to pickpocket the key to the house, or pick the lock inside.

If it was only the latter example, I could stomach an oversight. But being forced to do it in the equivalent of the Warrior's Guild, is just broken. I don't mind passing by locked chests and "alternate path" locked doors inside dungeons. But having it forced on characters that don't fit, is just sad. This is exactly what I mean when I say Skyrim's reeking with missed opportunities. Why not add more alternatives to quests? As mentioned in the investigation situation: the chance to use to speech skill. Hell, why not engage the woman's lover in a tavern brawl, knock him out and get the key this way?

Lockpicking doesn't fit all characters. Why would a big ass, burly warrior suddenly bend over? Who says this blunt bastard even has the capacity to do something as delicate as pick a lock? Why would my shaman do it? As a matter of fact, why the heck were open lock alteration spells removed from the game? Does Bethesda love their terrible lockpicking minigame so much they need to force it down everyone's throat?

As a matter of fact, I think it would be high time Bethesda considered adding the BASH LOCK feature that's *always* modded into their games. Its not difficult to balance this to keep lockpicking enticing.

- High chance to damage the character's health and stamina. (If there's an enemy behind that locked door, you might have trouble)
- Bashing a lock is exceptionally loud, causing enemies and guard to investigate from a farther radius. (Add a timer that if you're seen trespassing, they arrest/attack you.)
- Bashing a chest has a high chance of breaking the items inside, making them useless.
- Cannot bash large stone/metal doors and chests.

I really hope that 4-5 years from now, when they release the next installement in the series, Bethesda will finally evolve a bit outside the graphics department.

I agreed with you until that last line.

You... do know about the perk system, right? That's actually a huge step forward to many of us, when compared to Morrowind and Oblivion. You can't just ignore some things and focus on others, you know.

Agreed. Forced lockpicking on all class types is bad design.

I agree with this but for role playing purposes when I'm not playing a thief I just ignore locked doors/chests. It also makes the game more challenging.

Agreed about the lockpicking, though it adds more minutes to each dungeon

It's also been mentioned that lockpicking doesn't really work well with the current perk system - the perks are good enough to justify them. They should have put something useful, like tumbling/athletics there, and there really should be three ways to open locks...

Brute Force (bashing)
Skill/Finesses (lockpicking)
Spellcasting (Open/Lock spells)

This would cover all three primary playstyles acknowledged by the game. Bashing counts towards your weapon, Lockpicking towards sneak, and open lock towards alteration.

You're right there, though I guess I didn't see this as evolving so much as altering something that's already been there. But you are right its better. In that sense, its evolved. I was being a little selective there.

I mean in terms of gameplay mechanics. Yes combat has definately evolved, and the directional power attacks are pretty damn neat.

I guess what I keep hoping to see is that more than combat, graphics and leveling evolve to an extant. Speech has regressed significantly. I'm throwing out random ideas here, but would it not add so much more to exploring, climbing and dungeon design if they added some simple form of ledge-grab climbing? I'm not talking Uncharted 3 level, but just jumping up and pulling yourself up à la Crysis 2. Adds a new layer of exploration, and actually searching and discovering paths instead of following a straight floor? Again, as mentioned before, the BASH LOCK feature would be a god send, even for something so basic.

Just random idea.

But I'm just really bothered with the lockpicking in this situation.

That's what I do generally. The problem is that I shouldn't be forced to use lockpicking (thief skill) to complete a warrior guild mission.

Missing out on a single quest like the one above, I could dismiss as oversight.

But being FORCED to use it to complete quests of a genre completely unfitting for a thief skill, its just annoying.

Yeah, I totally agree.
Bashing goes for the Warrior archetype, Open/Lock for Mage and Lockpicking for Thieves.
The Lockpicking perks are useless anyway.

When my Orc Barbarian got 60 in Lockpicking, and in comparison has Heavy Armour (which actually levels slower than Light Armour, why) at 40, something is wrong.
My Breton Wizard, expert at Destruction, Conjuration and Alteration can't open lock with magic, it is just rediculous. That is something that was in earlier games too.
And I like the idea of risk at health and the safety of the items in the container or the crushing the lock making it impossible to open is great. Makes it a risk to not use lockpicks.

KInd of like the Force Lock attempt in FO3. If you fail, the lock is broken and you can wave goodbye to whatever was there, UNLESS you perk it.

Personally, I don't want lock-bashing or open lock spells in Skyrim because they would render the whole lockpicking skill tree useless (well, it's already useless as I regularly open master locks without any training while breaking less than 5 lockpicks, but hopefully that's something mods will eventually fix) but I enthusiastically agree with you that most of the quests in this game need alternative solutions for different playstyles. Your ideas for persuading a guard to help you with your investigation or tavern brawling your mark's lover to get a house key are excellent and I really wish more quests had a variety of creative ways like those to complete them. Speech in particular is a sadly underutilized skill in quests.

i was reading in the manual the other day and it says you can get your companion do lockpicking for you. so has anyone tried this out yet i'll be on playing later on today and will try it myself but just wondering until then.

Stop whining, its not hard to do if you understand it. Don't suggest bashing locks or a unlock spell, as the lockpick skill isn't thief exclusive and it isn't difficult. Lockpicks are so easy to find/buy, considering you can pick master locks at any level using lockpicks. This isn't a problem.

I love these ideas. Good way to balance gameplay. Smashing locks seems like a broken feature if there weren't some severe consequences like you listed.

Maybe add a fifth consequence:
-lowers your lock picking skill

So you'd still be able to open locks, but only with force.

How many followes got Master in Lockpicking? They will only pick locks according to their skilllevel, they refuse to even try an Adpet lock if their skill is below 50.
And it's the master and Expert locks I wish to be able to do without Lockpicking, everything else never ever break any picks or take more that 10 seconds to finish.

But it's mostly for RP reasons that I don't want to pick locks.

i would consider myself to be rather good at lockpicking only using 1 or 2 picks to unlock most locks. but master locks i go through about 15 to 20 pick to crack those bad boys open.

I'm in the same situation, sometimes I pick a master lock in 2-3 attempts, but sometimes its 8+. But then again most vendors sell a few, and the thieves guild vendor sells 40 at a time. I have over 400 lockpicks at the moment.

What about the guy who said his barbarian Orc has higher lockpicking than heavy armor? Why exactly did Bethesda think removing an open lock spell was a good idea? It would have been much better if mages and warriors had their own, exclusive ways of opening locks.

Uncharted + Skyrim? That would be an amazing game

I wish there was a climbing skill. As a thief that would make for some great burglary quests. Climb up the side of the mansion, pick the lock on the window, sneak in, grab the object, then rappel out of the window...

When I first heard that the lockpicking game was in Skyrim I hated it as it's something that depends on my personal skill and not the skill of my 'in-game' character.

Once I started playing however, and realized that my warrior could open a Master lock in less than ten tries, I figured it didn't really matter much.

Then I finished the game with my warrior (Level 37 after MQ) and I realized that her Lockpicking Skill was 54. 54 on a skill that a warrior should never have to invest in. DANG. IMO there should have been three ways to open locks in the game, BASH (for warrior), LOCKPICK (for rogue) and SPELL (for mages). The fact that all player types will (without trying) increase their lockpicking skill, thus leveling using a non-class skill, is just wrong.

Question, how is my high Lockpicking Skill going to help my warrior defeat an Elder Dragon? Guess what, it isn't, BUT because I leveled up so much from Lockpicking I get to fight Elder Dragons who don't give a d@mn about my Lockpicking Skill.

Ok, rant over...

so do your companions level up in skills like weapons and stuff the more they follow you around. i never realised this and only parted company with lydia who i had following me for 3 weeks now for a mage companion because i thought the mage would be more powerful.

But the problem presists, neither Lydia or the mage (whoever it is, probably Mercurio?) should be able to pick locks. Ans that is good. If you don't want to pick locks you'll ahveto use a rogue companion, but that restricts freedom.
Simply put in bashing and return to Open/Lock spells and you can play the game the way you want.

Companions are supposed to level with you but currently they do not. Maybe the January data patch will fix this. Right now you have to use the console (if you are on the PC of course) to level them.

I have never thought of getting a companion to open a lock though. I wonder if you have to give them lockpicks or if (like iron arrows) they just have them.

I think the scaling in this game is fine, if you were level 15 LP instead you would probably be level 35/36, so elder dragons would still be attacking you. Those levels you got from LP will have given you one or two perks for your 1h/2h/whatever combat style you use.

Lockpicking isn't a thief only skill, it's the same to use with any class type. It has the same effect on a thieves level as well.

It is easy. For ME. But it shouldn't be easy for my barbarian CHARACTER. The easiness of the mini game is not the point. It's about roleplaying.

i'm on the xbox and it says in the manual. commanding followers press and hold down the A button (activate) to enter command state. you can then tell your followers to

: wait at a specific spot on the ground
: use an object in the world, such as a lever or chair
: attack an enemy
: OPEN A LOCKED DOOR OR CONTAINER:
: pick up items in the world

so do you think that means doors or chests that require lock picking?