I'm not really sure where people are coming from with the "it's a game, it wouldn't be fun otherwise" angle, considering that one of the most oft-criticized elements of Fallout 3's gameplay is how ridiculously easy and unchallenging it is, due largely to the tremendous amount of HP you have, the ability to become good at everything without having to work for it (moreso in Broken Steel, but w/e), the fact that you're apparently the only person able to keep your gear in decent shape, the tons of perks, the luxuries of popping tons of drugs and medications with no ill effects and the auto-targetting power of VATS, during which you take virtually no damage. For a game that is supposed to be big on the whole survival angle, it fails most of the time to provide that since you very rarely feel that your character is in danger of dying. Unless you're on Very Hard, but that's boring since it's just a simple shift in damage you do vs. damage they do, and even simple raiders can take 10 headshots and not die on that mode.

Bethesda's attempts to remedy it have involved buffing up their enemies in terms of damage and health, which still doesn't make the game more challenging; it just made combat tedious and the world make even less sense than before. All difficulty problems lie solely with the player's many powers, and the only way to truly make the game challengiing is to nerf them. There's no reason that the main character has to be far stronger than the NPC's statistic-wise in order for the game to be playable. Typically, the fact that the protagonist is driven by human intelligence rather than AI is enough of an advantage over the computerized opponents.

You can toss out eating/drinking systems because that wouldn't be fun in a game (and rather boring and tedious). You can toss out the need to use the bathroom regularly, to need to get sleep, and the need to spend years training to wield those weapons without killing yourself. You can explain away the fact that your character is a decent fighter instead of a weak, sheltered young advlt because combat wouldn't be fun playing the latter. But the fact that you are practically as strong as a Brotherhood of Steel paladin almost straight out of the Vault (and is capable of easily beating one too)? There ARE lines that can be crossed in regards to the "it's a game" rationale, and Fallout 3 definitely crosses them.

The LW's super-human status makes no sense from both story and gameplay perspectives. Had he/she been on par with most wasteland NPC's, it would've IMO been acceptable as far as the realism/entertainment balance goes and yet gameplay more enjoyable.

There's a fine line between "realism" and "You gotta eat 3 times a day, make the player feel like he/she's been beaten with an idiot stick by explaining everything in very simple words, and has a good chance of dying when he/she faces a radroach."

Much of the argument seems to be focuesd on the latter, rather than the former. Are there issues of realism in FO3? Of course, all games have this, some are more glaring than the others. Is there an issue of balance? Somewhat, depending on your views. But the people arguing aganst the "it's a game" statement want to have it stated in-game on how the LW knows how to load and use a Plasma Rifle, knows where Megaton is when they're fresh out of the vault, and why the player begins to collect caps before he/she knows they're the monetary system in the wasteland, rather than pre-war bills.

As for the super-human aspect, the game's pretty challenging until you get up there in levels. It's only 15+ where the LW becomes Super Human.

There's a line where aspects are dropped by the term "it's a game." Balance, survival, these aren't explained away from that statement, but how a player "knows" how to use stuff he's never seen before is. THIS is where those of us saying "it's a game" are coming from.

I was referring only to the LW's "super-human" combat prowess, nothing more, and my statement was is in regards to those who had used the "it's a game" excuse solely to defend that combat prowess (and there have been some in this thread). I wasn't referring to the "knowledge" aspect (and didn't mean to imply that I was), since I agree that Fallout 3 doesn't need to be bogged down with lengthy info-dumps that can be rationalized as simply happening offscreen. My only beef with the "realism" of the LW is only with how naturally adept he/she is at combat (and far superior to everyone else), despite how weak the character might be intended to be.

In Fallout if my combat skills were weak, I was weak. I certainly was never adept at combat when my small guns, or big guns, or even energy weapons were below 50%.

I got it.

The Lone Wanderer lives through all these things because the person controlling his actions doesn't play games to be a big loser.

Wonder how large the masochistic gamer community is .

If the LW surrenders the overseer will attempt to kill them, that's not a very good hypothetical because you either die or escape, there is no staying in 101.



It wouldn't have been a viable option to overhaul the entire game balance in a few months after years of development having led to the final result. But, ultimately, it's 'easy' because that's how they wanted it.

As large as my imagination.

No, it wouldn't be viable to overhaul it, and I've acknowledged this before (easily half the consumers would complain about how their paid to have their characters nerfed). Short of drastically increasing the spawns (which they did to a small extent with the Enclave), bumping up the statistics was one of their few options. Granted, they could've done something unique with the enemies or at least balanced the system better, but admittedly they couldn't do much without an overhaul. The real reason I mentioned Broken Steel's handling of "challenging enemies" is because it demonstrates my point that all issues with the game's lack of difficulty stem from the LW, not the enemies.

I have the answer....

IT'S A GAME!!!

If you cannot survie a single round in the chest in a game then the game is not worthy of playing!!!

If you can survive a whole HORDE of expert combat soldiers then THAT'S a bloody good game

It has been said before, but I'll say it again.
It's a game.

A book might refer briefly to a character reading a manual or getting some training (might even go into details at times) and a movie might have fancy montage (though not for everything and not every movie).
A game however has no place for this. At best you get a tutorial where people actually explain what buttons to push on a gun (though mostly it's just here's a shooting range use those guns). These things are regulated to a single button push, though, which show a series of animations from you character. Which means that since you don't want these things to be a hassle, you leave them in "off screen" land.

If it makes you feel better imagine that he tinkers around with the laser rifle, perhaps finds a manual, gets training or finds some info in a "Nicolai Tesla and You". The fact of the matter remains that your character eventually has these skills when he needs to use them, for gaming purposes and lore/logic has little consideration in it.

well, about the lazer rifle i would say that i most likely would look for a place to insert/remove ammo, and try the different types of ammo that i have untill one fits. besides, you can probably notice how the enemy that (maybe) used the weapon before you handled the weapon. if its a lone enemy you could stop when it stopped to reload and observe how its done... (even though it would be stupid to do so...)
also; trial and error! if it dosent kill you, you learn from it.

about the repairing; in the vault its a responsibility to keep everything fine and repaired, you get in trouble if you dont. i mean most of the stuff there has been used for about 200 years...

thats just my two caps... now, about how a deathclaw can survive a mini nuke to the shoulder is beyond me...

Uhh, because he's the protagonist of the story, and in an action-oriented story the protagonist is usually above-and-beyond average mortals; surviving trials that would kill the average joe.

Is it that the protagonist is super human so he can do the things he does.. or is it the things he does that make him super human?

A question best left to ancient philosophers and just enjoy the game.

For those of you who bring up the Vault Dweller and Chosen One, keep in mind it was possible to complete their missions with much less violence than the Lone Wanderer had to employ, they also benefited from being able to disguise themselves in the villain's stronghold. The Vault Dweller could get Children of the Cathedral robes from the Followers of the Apocalypse and the Chosen One could fool the people in Navarro into giving him advanced power armor!

Is it wrong that the Lone Wanderer is almost super human? He's the main character, he's US!! Would you like it if you died five minutes after leaving Vault 101 fighting molerats that took away 50% of your health?

If you want to play the Lone Wanderer as a realstic human being, then play it on Very Hard mode. Some of us actually like running around as gods/goddesses of the world raining death and woe on the puny mortals (or saving them).

as for the book reading, would you rather have to wait thirty minutes real time while your character sat down and read a book?

Enclave were tough? Oh back when EW weren't baby's play toys :meh:

Setting your difficulty level to very high settings should give you a much more dangerous environment.

Also, this Lone Wanderer is so skilled in everything, because he's a survivor? Most of us probably wouldn't last for more than a few weeks/months in such harsh environments in real life; but some do.

Bringing up an old movie here for reference. Max Rockatansky wasn't particulary skilled either (apart from being a policeman), but he was a survivor. He did feats far beyond the comprehension of bloodthirsty bikers/raiders that opposed him. Did he wade through them without a scratch? His busted up visage, cars behaving as they shouldn't and metal struts around his leg suggest otherwise, but he didn't give up! Because he was a survivor with a cause!!



Greetz,

Milt

he's a ta'veren

It's easily inclusive of all Ghost and Goblins fans, combined with those early adopters of MMO's. What else falls into this diagram?

Fallouts 1&2 used to advance the clock when you used your Doctor skills or read a skillbook, which helped you with the illusion that your character was doing something to learn or do something. Fallout 3 makes it instantaneous when you make something or use a skillbook. It is a small change, but one which I think has game feel implication, as it makes you feel like the character is doing something more real.

Moved my post to FO4 suggestions heh.

i agree along the lines that someoen else used.. he is the protagonist, but whats more.. he is being controlled by the player..
a lot of it is going to depend on howa person plays the game.. see. the quests and their outcomes are the only things that are written..
how many people you kill, the perks taken, stimpacks taken, thats all up to you..

You must have missed the enigmatic voice during the intro : "They have taken you from the Jefferson Memorial. First by carriage, now by foot. To the West, to Vault 101. Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen."

How he does it? He has 10 Luck.
But really, it wouldn't be a very fun game if you were forced to die.

"Oh, you're in an Enclave base that is essential to finishing the storyline, but since you have no military training and are surrounded by highly trained soldiers, it would be unrealistic if you survived. You are now dead."

GAME OVER

Not very fun, eh?