I have recently finished my first LonesomeRoad playthrough and noticed something weird.

My character didn′t complete many main-story quests, but he already formed an alliance with the Boomers and told Yes-Man about it. Once Ulysses was taken care off, I chose to bomb both the NCR and the Legion, so my relations dropped from Neutral to Vilified.

Upon returning to New Vegas, I directly went to the embassies to check out if anything has changed in the NCR-soldier′s behavior. Before reaching the building, a guard demanded 200 caps because of my bad reputation. I gave him the money to prevent a massacre and went to the ambassador′s office to see if I could improve relations with the NCR somehow. The ambassador didn′t want to talk about anything though and the only dialogue option was one regarding the Boomers.

So here comes the funny part: I told him that the the Boomers will support... "us", which was obviously a lie and relations jumped from Vilified to Accepted! To make things more ridiculous, both of us played a hand of caravan afterwards. He apparently had no problem to play caravan with a war criminal responsible for the deaths of most people in the US...

Also, after leaving the building, I sneak-killed the soldier who received 200 caps from me before, but I didn′t get my money back.

So what do you guys think? I read in the wiki that you can only reverse the negative effects of the bombing if you didn′t start the Ring-a-ding-ding quest, but there seems to be an easy work-around.

In addition, the ambassadors behavior is proof for the DLC′s consequences not being implemented very well, so I′m thinking of reloading from a previous save-game...

To those players bombing both the NCR and Legion: Are the bombardments taken into consideration in the main quest′s ending screen? Are you casted away in many conversations for having bombed 90% of the US? Because if it′s only the loot from both bombing sites I lose, I have no problem with reloading and sparing both factions...

You went too far and you read wrong. NCR rep resets the moment the messenger gives you the Embassador's note, not when you talk to him.

If you haven't confronted Benny yet, however, Vulpes WILL reset your legion rep.

OK finally found something regarding the consequences of the bombing. Apparently, there are none, or not many. Reputation just needs to be improved to get the faction to like you again.

Other than that, has anyone of you experienced some NPC reactions? How can such a big event have no repercussions, roleplay-wise?

@Longknife: I already killed Benny and my relations with the NCR and Legion were already resetted before entering the Divide. I wasn′t expecting a second reset or something like that, I was just surprised that I could get my relations from Vilified to Accepted by just completing a mission (for the second time).

DLCs can't interact with base game content.

Well there ARE consequences, but not if you specifically hold back on the main quest until actually bombing.

As for big events with reprocussions, there's tons. You're basically taking the singular "second chance" in the game and saving it to circumvent those reprocussions. Every quest in the game however has reprocussions, so now you won't be able to circumvent those since you've already used your second chance.

As for why there's no NPC acknowledgement of what you've done:

1) This happens far away, not within the Mojave itself. Locals shouldn't really care, nor should tourists. The NCR and/or Legion obviously do though.

2) Keep in mind this is one DLC. They can't exactly re-hire every generic NPC voice actor and give them new dialog lines for the bombing. I realize you may think "yes they can," but remember Bethesda published this while Obsidian developed it. I THINK I recall one of the Obsidian devs saying that by the time they reached Lonesome Road, their budget only allowed for a handful of voice actors. Thus, you mainly only encounter Ulysses.

True, it′s way too time-consuming to change every NPC′s behavior. I wouldn′t have expected something as big as that, but the factions should at least attack you on sight without the possibility to be friendly them. It also would be nice if civilians were frightened by you and ran away from time to time. I mean, you are the most successful villain of the history after all...

Besides, if the Mojave becomes the only region with a "economical infrastructure", I would expect civilians from the whole continent to flock to New Vegas.

In the end, I think the bombing-decision is a no-brainer for me. From a roleplay-perspective, not setting the bombs off is the only way to go... unless someone of you helps me filling the gap with good old fantasy

Here's my question: how does anyone figure out the Courier is the one responsible for the nukes?

"Hear that courier went into the divide?"

1 week later...

"Man, hear about all those nukes that launched from the divide?"

That's a good question, though we do know from Dead Money's ending that the battle at the Divide eventually becomes "famous." I also think I recall something about the bomb neither perk description saying the Followers and the BoS both detected the occurance through tech.

Which is plausible, of course. We already know both of them are able to trace signals within eyebots, and no matter the ending, signals and messages are sent to the Courier's ED-E. All it would take is a single group tracing the logs of what happened in the Divide, and obviously that's big enough news that it'd spread like wildfire.

How would they know where the nukes came from?

How did they know you went there in the first place?

Secondly, given how Mr. New Vegas himself is apparently unable to connect you to the 5,000,000 things you do in the base game, why exactly does anyone else have to ability to connect you to the divide?

Everything about going to the divide, and people hearing about it, even all the way back in Dead Money's Dog/God ending, has never really made any sense from a narrative point of view.

Somebody had a camera tapped to a coyote.

What do want me to say?

Neither seems very plausible to me.

Even if the Brotherhood figures it out (and that seems dubious given Eyesight to the Blind is all about how they need Black Mountain in order to operate more effectively on the surface) the Brotherhood informing anyone relies on there being out of isolation which isn't necessarily true at any point in the game if the Courier never goes to Hidden Valley.

And the Followers being able to do it just seems bizarre and completely incongruous with their setup in Vegas. They're operating under extremely difficult conditions, are undersupplied and struggling to provide relief and aid to Freeside but they apparently have brought or jury-rigged sophisticated equipment that can track missile launches at Old Mormon Fort?

I guess my point is that given the circumstances of the launch and the inevitably minimal nature of the consequences (Destroying an entire country is basically the same offense as wiping out Forlorn Hope in the game's eyes) the reputation hits probably could've been dispensed with.

No no, I'm saying we know both the BoS and the Followers can track Eyebot logs, and that no matter what you do, the ED-E in the Divide sends signals to the Courier's ED-E in the Mojave. Both would be able to intercept those logs documenting what the Courier did, and the Followers would definitely spread such news, either wanting to tell people what a devil he was or what a hero he was.

That's a pretty good point.

I love Lonesome Road, but I have some huge problems with the end choice. Longknife, I can buy that people found out about the Courier due to ED-E, but I don't buy that people aren't responding because the bombs occurred far away. For one, pretty much everyone would be freaking out or at least talking about the 2 large nuclear explosions that could be seen within a massive radius from most parts of the map. Mojave Outpost would probably be getting Fallout, at least. The final battle would probably turn out differently, with factions reacting to the courier just a *tad* more strongly. Showing the consequences of the decision is impossible financially, so I honestly think they should have done something else entirely. No option to nuke anywhere. Either that, or they should have made it an end-game choice like the two in Dead Money in such a way that the Second Battle of Hoover Dam is made irrelevant. All of this makes me wish that Lonesome Road was a 30 dollar expansion pack with a larger Divide, a Ulysses companion, and changes to the wasteland, but that was never going to happen anyway.

Yes, or maybe they should have merged the main and DLC ending if you go for the bombing option.

Not saying to buy it, I gave two points and one of them was a blatant "budget issues."

I'm just saying the answer is obvious: this is a DLC intended to be played at the end of the game that had some budget restraints. As such, no, people don't really react to what's done within it, partly because they couldn't fund it, partly because it's assumed to be a DLC you do at the end, at which point they assume your decisions are set in stone and you're not gonna be like "NEVERMIND I'MMA BOMB THE NCR" if you support them.

In that context? It certainly works. But as OP pointed out, it is quite immersive-breaking if you do this DLC earlier.

Oh, absolutely. I definitely understand the reasons for why it isn't a fully realized decision, it just leads me to question whether they should have done that decision at all. It doesn't really bother me, however, as I just never nuke anyone. For an NCR or Legion supporter, that option still makes sense in a lot of ways. I am thankful they didn't pull a Van Buren and inevitably send a nuke someplace, and you had to direct it. That would have been awful in this context.

I never nuke anyone, even on my most militant of NCR supporters (no Legion experience - yet), so I guess I'm unphased by the lack of post-event context. To me it just represents another terrible "beast" that I have slain for the people of the Mojave and beyond that they never knew existed and never knew how close they came to it just like the experimental horrors of the Think Tank, the Cloud descending from the Sierra Madre, and to a lesser extent the continued warpath of the White Legs.

I had intended to play a "Fight the Power!" anarchist who would nuke both, but I never got around to it.

This'll sound like some fringe, crazy Obsidian loyalist theory here, but I still wanna mention it cause of how funny it is at how much sense it makes:

I think you gotta look at it from Obsidian's perspective. This was their chance at coming back to Fallout and this was their chance of doing everything they didn't get to do before. All of Obsidian has voiced how much they love Fallout and how they'd definitely be on board for working on another one.
But of course, this might've been their only chance. I'm sure they considered that while working on the game, and as such, they might've wanted to treat it as their only chance. As in, they wanna do everything they can and they may want to treat this is an "ending." You know those "endings" some series have where you can tell the writers were aware there might not be another season or the like? So they prepare for that possibility without actually writing themselves in a corner? That, to me, is New Vegas and Lonesome Road.

Three things about Lonesome Road:

-It finishes what Van Buren couldn't
-The ending is filled with potential, allowing anything to happen, from the Core region basically being killed off to nothing at all.
-There's a certain amount of symbolism in Lonesome Road, IMO.



What do I mean about symbolism?



What is ED-E?

He's the only tie between Fallout 3 and the Core Region. He's the only character in the core Region that comes from the east; he's the only character with Bethesda origins. In a way, ED-E is Bethesda.

What is the Courier?

The Courier represents a lot of things. He's the player, he's the protagonist, he embodies many parts of human nature involved with Fallout themes, and perhaps, he represents Obsidian. Just as Obsidian has managed to survive all its been through and come back to make Fallout New Vegas, the Courier survived a 2-to-1 that should've killed him. And yet he walks, and yet he shows in his travels why war never changes. Even if you play him good karma (though he definitely feels more neutral), he's sort of a death incarnate in that he brings death to communities as he walks, whether he intends to or not.


What is the Core Region?

That's Obsidian's domain. It's everything they built before Bethesda took over, with the East being Bethesda's.


It's interesting that throughout Lonesome Road, you're shadowed by ED-E the entire time. He cannot die, he cannot be left behind, but rather you must have him following you at all times. This is the Courier's road to walk, and yet ED-E is there monitoring the entire thing from beginning to end, like his shadow.

And at the end and at the climix of things, ED-E, the Courier and the Core Region all interact in ways that seem downright symbolic to me.

What happens if you launch the nukes? ED-E is allowed to survive and live on, but the Core Region suffers. The Core Region cannot remained unchanged in some way in the prescense of ED-E. The representative of Bethesda is in tact, but the west and all that we've known before FO3 begins to crumble, because the focal point of Fallout is changing, with ED-E (Bethesda) being, in the Courier's (the player) opinion, being more important than the Core Region. (Obsidian)
And if you kill him? Then, then the Core Region can survive and thrive if the Courier (the playerbase) feels the Core Region (Obsidian) is more important than ED-E, but for that, ED-E (Bethesda) needs to be willing to sacrifice himself in some way.
And if you leave him? If Bethesda is left out, then both the Core Region and ED-E suffer for it. ED-E's (Bethesda) prescence is necessary for the Core Region (and for Fallout in general) to survive, because without them, The Courier (Obsidian in this case) simply can't keep the Core Region alive as well as he could if ED-E supports him.


And no matter what you choose, the endings for ED-E in the base game show that he remains a constant companion to the Courier, something we've never seen stated before in a companion ending. It shows that for better or worse, the two are connected.


Now look, I sincerely doubt Chris Avellone consciously intended for any of this symbolism. I just think its a fine idea to toss around, but I'm not so delusional that I think Obsidian was trying to tell us something or wtf ever.

But go look at the little blog post Avellone wrote at the end of Lonesome Road. To me, that was a fail safe goodbye. That was him saying thanks he got another chance to work with Fallout, and Lonesome Road was him being ready to hand over the keys to Bethesda, or if Bethesda is willing, it also shows a willingness to take the wheel, if Beth would allow it. Lonesome Road's writing allows for Bethesda to kill off the Core Region entirely if they so please, as well as leaving it open enough that the Core Region could remain entirely in tact for future titles.

I simply feel like Obsidian approached Fallout New Vegas and its DLCs like "this could be our last chance to make a Fallout game, lets make it count." And sure enough, the Old World Blues ending claims the Courier "called dibs" on deciding the fate of humanity, and sure enough the Courier can make or break the Core Region. In that sense, even if there IS another game in the Core Region in the future? New Vegas felt like an ending to what FO1 started. It's an ending that allows the player to write their own ending regarding what happens to humanity, whether it be total destruction or a chance to move forward and recover. It's incredibly well done, and to be honest? As much as I'd love a New Vegas 2 or for another Obsidian game in the Core Region, I honestly wouldn't mind if New Vegas were the ending for the Core Region, because I don't think they could possibly write a better ending.



Having said all of that....


I get the complaints and the criticisms of the execution, but look at it from THAT perspective. Pretend your Obsidian and come to the realization that New Vegas may be the last "original" Fallout. Would it feel right to not give it a climix and an ending of sorts? No, it wouldn't, and thus Lonesome Road exists. Because if, worst case scenario, fallout goes under or Bethesda takes over completely and sticks to the East Coast entirely, the Core Region got a sense of closure. That, to me, is DEFINITELY worth all these minor complaints about NPC reactivity to Lonesome Road events feeling a little half-assed.