No long drawn out openings please. : V - Skyrim

» Thu May 12, 2011 6:28 pm

Long.

I want some back story. And a reason why Im there.

Then on my second play through I want to have the option to skip it.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:47 am

It's weird your answers are questions...

but yeah it should have a medium-length tutorial that you have the option to skip (like FO:NV).

I voted a short opening however because if it isn't skip-able i hope it is more like morrrowind's. I loved the first time playing Morrowind, having no idea where i was really supposed to do or where i was supposed to go. I would like that feeling again.

EDIT: i forgot to mention i had a poll just like this, but it produced very different results.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1161254-long-tutorial-like-obliviondaggerfall-or-short-intro-like-morrowind/

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:53 am

I liked the length of Oblivion's. Plus, you can save before exiting the sewers meaning you only have to play through the whole beginning once.

» Thu May 12, 2011 9:56 pm

It adds a lot of oomph to the initial play-through and first impressions. Most of you said it was fun the first time. First impressions drive initial reviews, and positive reviews boost sales. If Todd Howard stepped out tomorrow and said, "This game is going to have a long intro because we feel it adds to the world," that is not going to be a deal-breaker for most people. No one is going to rage-quit over that. Bethesda has no reason not to do a long intro.

. . . Luckily, it seems from that Todd Howard quote this may not be the case. :thumbsup:

» Thu May 12, 2011 11:14 pm

Eh depends. Oblivions sort of shoved your face into the Main Quest which was great, It was a LONG time before I even knew there was a main story in Morrowind.

Either way Im not worried if its long or short because itll be done well. I have at least that much faith in Bethesda.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:42 am

The answer to a question is another question!

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:23 am

There's a reason why you should save right before you leave the sewers in Oblivion.
That way, you can always just reload right at the end pick whatever you want.

Also, too get killed by rats in Oblivion's tutorial would probably be an intentional thing.

» Thu May 12, 2011 9:00 pm

The point of the long opening was to sample class distinctions. Since those are gone, a quick WHAM opening would likely be more effective. Therefore I cast my vote for short.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:15 am

I created a save file right before exiting the sewer in Oblivion, where you still had the option to change all character features again (and with the light of a torch.) I named the file "tutorial" and loaded it when I wanted a new character, ect.

A save file is a good way to skip the whole thing, and that's what I did when I first played the game a lot. The reason I brought up this issue was that my computer was reformatted a while back, and today I decided to play Oblivion again and I got killed by the LAST assassin twice in a row. It was really annoying and since I usually blow through the enemies and don't die during the start of the game I didn't save. The whole thing just reminded me of what I original thought was wrong with the opening.

» Thu May 12, 2011 8:07 pm

The long method is fine with me if, like in Oblivion, I can still save at the end of it to create a character.

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:21 am

I think it should be somewhere in the middle, but leaning to the shorter side of the spectrum. I found Morrowind's a bit too short, and Oblivion's quite a bit too long.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:49 am

I like long openings as long as they're skippable and they keep me on the edge of my seat for the first time.

After seeing that trailer i bet you wont have to worry about being disappointed with the opening.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:40 am

It is easy enough to skip the opening if you don't want to see it. Besides, how many characters are you starting that you have to watch it all the time?

I'm hoping for an even longer opening this time. I want some in depth information on the civil war that is brewing. We shouldn't just be thrown into the world like we don't live there. I hated how, in FONV, no real background was given on the NCR and Ceaser's Legion.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:04 am

How I personally think the opening will be (after making your character):

You are in a cell, scheduled for execution. A couple of guards come to your cell, and lead you to the public execution grounds. There is about 10-20 people present for the execution. You, the guards, the executioner, and a few civilians, including a man in a hooded cloak. As you get closer to your impending doom the man moves through the crowd. Right before the axe drops, the hooded man (who you have probably guessed is Esbern) halts the execution.

From there, I'm torn between if he has a diplomatic way to stop it like an order from some official or if you have to escape. Of course this is all speculation right now but that is how I think it will play out. I am pretty good (read: lucky) at this kind of thing.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:41 am

I say make it long, because you WILL enjoy it the first time. After that just save before they ask you to confirm your choices, thats what I did in Oblivion.

» Thu May 12, 2011 9:48 pm

I'd kind of like a sort of semi-playable opening, like it starts immediately from character creation, then starts up moving across the landscape, maybe with a voiceover, then zooms in on first person inside a cage being transported to the execution site, being jostled around as the guards throw you some race-appropriate jeers. "Hey, Khajiit! Got nothing to say? Huh? Cat got yer tongue? Bahahahaha!" "Hey Argonian! You're gonna make a nice pair of boots!". Then you can move out of your cage, kind of being pushed to the gallows or whatever. Then Esbern shows up, cuts your bindings, throws you a sword, and you can start fighting if you want or cower back and let him handle them all. He tells you get going after that. That'd be enough for me. I don't need a dragon attack or anything, just the basics of my character history and where I have to go to get stuff started.

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:06 am

You shouldn't need to save your game just so you can skip the (way too long) familiarization section before finalizing your character. A lot of people do make a lot of different characters. Thank God for alternative start mods. I think they got it right with Morrowind: Dump you into the world with no more instruction than "go find this guy in that town." And from there, the guy actually gave you a reason (or requirement) to go do some non-MQ stuff before continuing. You could practically own the world before continuing the MQ without seeming like you were avoiding it.

Anyone here ever play Redguard? Remember the opening to that, with the pirate battle? It's been a long, long time, but I remember that being a damn good opener. They should have something like that, maybe with the option to skip it. Of course, good openers are tough to come up with for a game with such a customizable player character. Ideally you would want a setup that that is interesting but completely generic (so as not to define your character for you) and leaves you close to completely anonymous in the world with no background exposition on the PC. Very difficult to do. They came pretty close with Morrowind; it probably won't get better IMO.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 am

If you want long drawn out openings try Daggerfall lol.
It took me ages before I had even figured out how to exit that dungeon, and the sense of relief I felt after finally seeing the gameworld is indescribable.

Morrowind did it well.

Oblivion was even worse than Daggerfall's because it was very tutorial-like, with the pop-up messages and the obvious 'hey: did you know you can fight with a spell or bow too?' kinda progression.
Fun and good to learn from the first time around, utterly dreadful the fiftieth.

Id prefer something short and simple, like in Morrowind.
Make your character, learn some basics and get shoved out into a huge world. Your on youre own now. Good luck.

» Thu May 12, 2011 6:31 pm

I thought the begining was fun. It got old, but just make a save at the end and use that for character creation.

And I hope the opening for Skyrim is fun too, and if its long I'll do the same.

» Thu May 12, 2011 8:13 pm

Oblivion's was too long. It was just a hassle. But first-time Morrowind players tend to get confused, because most games-even RPG's-give the player more direction than in Elder Scrolls games. Maybe the standard intro could be like Morrowind's, but at some point could ask, "Have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?" If the player answers no, then (s)he's presented with a tutorial outlining the premise of the game's open-endedness and skill system (and also more basic stuff like the controls).

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:08 am

I found the super long drawn out opening to Oblivion fun and dramatic the first time I played it, but as I started doing more play throughs I found it incredibly annoying, boring, and almost pointless.

You're supposed to save right near the exit when it asks you if you want to make any last changes to your character. I always keep handy the one where I snuck behind Baurus for a few hours to get my sneak at level 100. :ninja:

The first time you play Oblivion, I believe it's very important that it gives you a grasp on the way the world is set up and how the controls function. Fighting rats and then goblins for twenty minutes more than prepared me for my battle with the mudcrabs outside. Without this training, I surely would have perished...

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:30 am

I found the super long drawn out opening to Oblivion fun and dramatic the first time I played it, but as I started doing more play throughs I found it incredibly annoying, boring, and almost pointless. First off it's only makes sense to do it if your planning on playing the main quest, and for that you really need to see it once. Now I understand they want to setup the story, and start the main quest for you so you always have that option open, but does it really have to be so long? The part where you make that detour into that cave and fight goblins is especially pointless. The part I hate the most though is the fact that it has fighting in it, and therefore you can die, which may make you do whole parts of it again and repick certain stats. You'd think Bethesda would fix the bad parts about long openings that set up the story, but then they went and made an even longer and infinitely more boring opening to Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, I actually don't care if the openings has some drama and sets up the story, but it shouldn't be long and capable of killing you. I prefer Morrowind's beginning much better, but I do have to admit it could be more exciting.

What are thoughts on the openings of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3? And how do you think they should do the opening of Skyrim to avoid the problems they had.

Just save immediately before leaving the tutorial dungeon, and you can customize everything right there without watching the opening sequence and without playing that annoying first 'quest.' That is, if the same principles apply for Skyrim.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:04 am

Just to reiterate, I'm only talking about the part of the opening were you actually walk around and fight. The first cut-screen was fine because it could be skipped.

» Thu May 12, 2011 11:18 pm

Why in the world would you watch the opening for other playthroughs? Thats your problem, not bethesdas, because you could, like EVERYONE did, have a saved game ready right before coming out of the sewers and simply remake the character before exiting.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:25 am

Why in the world would you watch the opening for other playthroughs? Thats your problem, not bethesdas, because you could, like EVERYONE did, have a saved game ready right before coming out of the sewers and simply remake the character before exiting.

I shouldn't have to play through a long, repetitive, and boring opening period. Everyones says that "They intended you to save right before you left the sewers". No they didn't! They just made an opening that's way to long that you can't skip. The saving before you leave thing was just a habit that people passed around. A huge number of people never heard of that, and I bet there are some who still don't know that tick. I knew it, but as I clearly stated earlier all my saves got wiped, so I was forced to play it again. The dang then is only fun once! Why should I have to play through an unshippable tutorial ever! I've been playing computer games since I was five! I played the original space invaders game on a computer that only used floppy disks that where actual floppy! I played the original Half-life on one of the first disks printed. I've played every type of game and have never had much difficultly with any of them. (except Bioshock, thats related to the whole reformatting issue.) What I'm trying to say is I don't need a tutorial, especially twice. I understand why they have it, but if you don't need it they should allow you to skip it. Never mind the save thing, it's a matter of principle. That's my issue.