Lore-friendly and ecological enchanting perk...

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 8:47 pm

Have you ever realized how much paper and and parchment is wasted due to the use and thus destruction of magic scrolls? Do you imagine how many lives of trees or goats you could save by not destroying them anymore? Sure, it would help preventing the global warming, which is reinforced by all the greenhouse effect gases the dragons emit.

But this is not only a matter of ecology. It's also a matter of lore preservation.

Imagine the following case. During your adventures you found a rare Ayleid scroll allowing you to control temporarily the weather. This is a masterpiece, a sheer marvel, a unique piece of tamriellic lore.
Some year, a dramatic drought hit Skyrim. You fool use the scroll to end the drought. Did you thought people would be grateful and you would be loved as the one who saved hundred of citizens from starvation?
Of course not, nobody cares about their lives. Instead, you will be hated for centuries as people will remember you as The-One-Who-Destroyed-The-Wondrous-Scroll.
(Why do you ask questions about my sense of priorities?)

It is now clear that it is an ethical duty for us to find a way to use scrolls without harming them.

For this, it would suffice to have a high-level enchanting perk that enables you precisely to do that.

Please, Bethesda developpers, help us protecting lore and environment, help us to reach this noble goal...
User avatar
Jeremy Kenney
 
Posts: 3293
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:36 pm

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 10:14 pm

the problem with that is you can get free spells that way. If they never disappear after use then you always have that spell even though you just found it. Early in the game you can find spells from scrolls that are incredible compared to the ones you can afford to buy. i think it would make the game to easy
User avatar
michael flanigan
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:33 pm

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 10:38 pm

If theres even a disguised reference to so-called global warming in this game, i will take the disc and dispose of it in the least environmentally-friendly manner that i can think of
User avatar
Emma Copeland
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:37 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:45 am

the problem with that is you can get free spells that way. If they never disappear after use then you always have that spell even though you just found it. Early in the game you can find spells from scrolls that are incredible compared to the ones you can afford to buy. i think it would make the game to easy


More seriously, I don't think so. If for example you have to use 5 winged twilight souls to feed your scroll with magicka after each use, you won't use it too often, I think... But this is a way to allow using more than once very rare items...
User avatar
Dan Endacott
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:12 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 2:26 am

I suppose if it was a very high level perk, it would be ok.

I look at the use of scrolls in two ways:
1. It gives instant spells to the uneducated (i.e. Barbarians).
In this way it is good that they are destroyed (or else Barbarians could use magic just a much as a Mage). Plus, since the Barbarian is a Barbarian, it makes sense that he ended up destroying it after only one use.

2. I can allow Mages to use spells that are rare or more powerful than their current skill or magicka level.
If the character is knowledgable in magic, than it would be cool if you eventually were able to better preserve scrolls for multiple use. Maybe it should only effect scrolls within the school you are good at?
I do think it should be a higher level perk though, so as not to make Mages unbalanced early on (ooh, I found the Uber Scroll of Disintegration! Unlimited POWAH! HAHAHA!)
Perhaps it should require a decent knowledge of all schools of magic as well.

Edit: I also like the soul idea. Having to refill the scroll with power to use it twice limits multiple uses to the magically inclined. Although it would change the lore a bit. I sort of like the idea of the scroll being a tool or cage for the spell, but once you use it, it turns into a blank sheet of paper until infused with magick again.
User avatar
Daniel Lozano
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:42 am

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 8:28 pm

More seriously, I don't think so. If for example you have to use 5 winged twilight souls to feed your scroll with magicka after each use, you won't use it too often, I think... But this is a way to allow using more than once very rare items...

if you have to do something serious like fill it with grand soul gems or whatever you said then i would agree. as long as you have to work to use it more than once otherwise it would be too easy
User avatar
Sebrina Johnstone
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:58 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:01 am

What kind of troll thread is this?
Did you consider that that magic of the scroll could be used up when you use it?
User avatar
Donald Richards
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:59 am

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 11:34 pm

What kind of troll thread is this?
Did you consider that that magic of the scroll could be used up when you use it?

exactlyi would only want it if it was very vigorous to fill the magic in the scroll up again otherwise its to easy. i random kid can pick up a bunch of scrolls and kill me
User avatar
Lakyn Ellery
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 11:14 pm

i dont really understand what you're trying to say. It sounds like your asking us to be able to use scrolls without them disappearing, which defeats the purpose of having scrolls in the first place. I guess if you're saying we should have a perk that makes scrolls unlimited, i guess that makes more sense, but it still kind of defeats the purpose. its sounds like a shortcut to not increasing my magic skills. which is lame
User avatar
Minako
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:50 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 10:51 am

I thought the whole idea of a scroll was "Spell casting by proxy".

The warrior can't use magic directly, so he reads off the scroll, which is like a disposable battery powering one instance of a spell.
User avatar
James Baldwin
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:11 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 12:34 am

I don't have a problem with being able to recharge a scroll, although it could be difficult to balance. It's certainly not something I'm looking for however, I hardly ever use them myself.
User avatar
kelly thomson
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:18 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 9:31 am

Well, I tried to write this in a humorous way, but it seems that I'll have to make my point more clear.

I don't want to get overpowered when I get this perk.

This is why I indicated that it should be a high-level perk.

And I don't want the scrolls to become illimited supplys of magicka. Using them should have a cost. A way to maintain some kind of "to use with caution" would be that using a scroll once makes it immediately empty. And, of course, powerful scrolls should have higher soul costs.

I hope this makes the whole thing I propose more clear.

EDIT : I have added another choice to the poll, so that it is more balanced.
User avatar
Nikki Hype
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:38 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 3:51 am

If theres even a disguised reference to so-called global warming in this game, i will take the disc and dispose of it in the least environmentally-friendly manner that i can think of

:clap:
User avatar
Lucky Girl
 
Posts: 3486
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:14 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 8:03 am

Have you ever realized how much paper and and parchment is wasted due to the use and thus destruction of magic scrolls? Do you imagine how many lives of trees or goats you could save by not destroying them anymore? Sure, it would help preventing the global warming, which is reinforced by all the greenhouse effect gases the dragons emit.

But this is not only a matter of ecology. It's also a matter of lore preservation.

Imagine the following case. During your adventures you found a rare Ayleid scroll allowing you to control temporarily the weather. This is a masterpiece, a sheer marvel, a unique piece of tamriellic lore.
Some year, a dramatic drought hit Skyrim. You fool use the scroll to end the drought. Did you thought people would be grateful and you would be loved as the one who saved hundred of citizens from starvation?
Of course not, nobody cares about their lives. Instead, you will be hated for centuries as people will remember you as The-One-Who-Destroyed-The-Wondrous-Scroll.
(Why do you ask questions about my sense of priorities?)

It is now clear that it is an ethical duty for us to find a way to use scrolls without harming them.

For this, it would suffice to have a high-level enchanting perk that enables you precisely to do that.

Please, Bethesda developpers, help us protecting lore and environment, help us to reach this noble goal...


Well, it's an awesome idea. But, we must let civilities take it's course
(handcuffs are now force-equipped onto Ralcos)
:flamed:
User avatar
Emily Shackleton
 
Posts: 3535
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:36 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:55 am

Have you ever realized how much paper and and parchment is wasted due to the use and thus destruction of magic scrolls? Do you imagine how many lives of trees or goats you could save by not destroying them anymore? Sure, it would help preventing the global warming, which is reinforced by all the greenhouse effect gases the dragons emit.


Dovakhiin will take care of the dragons' greenhouse gases, just like the destruction of Vvardenfell took care of all that Alit and Guar farting contributing to the problem. :thumbsup:

And scrolls should be consumed on use, thank you very much. :P
User avatar
Sabrina Schwarz
 
Posts: 3538
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:02 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 2:17 am

What a waste of a programmer's time...and ours. I like games because they help me escape from the real-world politics. Don't want them in Skyrim.
User avatar
His Bella
 
Posts: 3428
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:57 am

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 11:36 pm

Perhaps I should also explain the way I see scrolls. I see them as magical patterns superimposed on physical stuff, that contains power ready to be released in a specific way. The fact is that the physical stuff is fragile and usually consumed when the release takes place.

But one can imagine that an especially gifted mage could have enough knowledge and sense of the involved magical pattern, to channel the power of the scrolls in a very subtle way during the release, preventing it to harm the physical stuff, and to refill it afterwards, since magical power is now gone (but neither the magical patterns nor the physical stuff which bears them).

Does it make my point more clear than the humorous initial post?
User avatar
Elle H
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:15 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:43 am

Perhaps I should also explain the way I see scrolls. I see them as magical patterns superimposed on physical stuff, that contains power ready to be released in a specific way. The fact is that the physical stuff is fragile and usually consumed when the release takes place.

But one can imagine that an especially gifted mage could have enough knowledge and sense of the involved magical pattern, to channel the power of the scrolls in a very subtle way during the release, preventing it to harm the physical stuff, and to refill it afterwards, since magical power is now gone (but neither the magical patterns nor the physical stuff which bears them).

Does it make my point more clear than the humorous initial post?


I see what you're getting at, but I still see it making little to no sense. As I see it a mage powerful/skillful/both enough to use a scroll without consuming it would be capable of casting the effect in question without a scroll to begin with, which begs the question "why bother with the scroll?" :shrug:
User avatar
MatthewJontully
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:33 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 12:25 am

I see what you're getting at, but I still see it making little to no sense. As I see it a mage powerful/skillful/both enough to use a scroll without consuming it would be capable of casting the effect in question without a scroll to begin with, which begs the question "why bother with the scroll?" :shrug:


For archeological purposes of course. Or because you want to have a scrolls collection...
User avatar
Roberto Gaeta
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:23 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 11:11 am

Have you ever realized how much paper and and parchment is wasted due to the use and thus destruction of magic scrolls? Do you imagine how many lives of trees or goats you could save by not destroying them anymore? Sure, it would help preventing the global warming, which is reinforced by all the greenhouse effect gases the dragons emit.

But this is not only a matter of ecology. It's also a matter of lore preservation.

Imagine the following case. During your adventures you found a rare Ayleid scroll allowing you to control temporarily the weather. This is a masterpiece, a sheer marvel, a unique piece of tamriellic lore.
Some year, a dramatic drought hit Skyrim. You fool use the scroll to end the drought. Did you thought people would be grateful and you would be loved as the one who saved hundred of citizens from starvation?
Of course not, nobody cares about their lives. Instead, you will be hated for centuries as people will remember you as The-One-Who-Destroyed-The-Wondrous-Scroll.
(Why do you ask questions about my sense of priorities?)

It is now clear that it is an ethical duty for us to find a way to use scrolls without harming them.

For this, it would suffice to have a high-level enchanting perk that enables you precisely to do that.

Please, Bethesda developpers, help us protecting lore and environment, help us to reach this noble goal...


How about allowing high level enchanters (expert or better) to learn the damn spell. That would be loveley! lol
User avatar
Sweets Sweets
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:26 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 3:11 am

For archeological purposes of course. Or because you want to have a scrolls collection...


Already solved in-game as it exists: Don't use any expendable item you want to collect.

There are plenty of collectors in real life who buy things they'll never even open the packaging on in order to collect them- just consider doing the same thing in-game to be "adding to the immersion." :thumbsup:
User avatar
TASTY TRACY
 
Posts: 3282
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:11 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 12:52 am

I see what you're getting at, but I still see it making little to no sense. As I see it a mage powerful/skillful/both enough to use a scroll without consuming it would be capable of casting the effect in question without a scroll to begin with, which begs the question "why bother with the scroll?" :shrug:


For example, imagine that some quests requires that you use a very beautiful scroll, the kind of masterpiece in the art of illumination you really want to display in your house. This perk could allow you to end the quest without renouncing to an ornated living room.
User avatar
Ray
 
Posts: 3472
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:17 am

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 3:44 am

How about allowing high level enchanters (expert or better) to learn the damn spell. That would be loveley! lol


This would be a very good idea as well. Could make another very nice perk. :clap:
User avatar
Queen Bitch
 
Posts: 3312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:43 pm

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 2:55 am

maybe a mix would be a good balance
have some that are one use scrolls, some that have multiple uses before being used up (maybe every use burns the paper a little more?), and some that are everlasting but take a lot to charge for one use or causes sever side effects to the user
User avatar
elliot mudd
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 8:56 am

Post » Wed May 18, 2011 9:54 pm

For example, imagine that some quests requires that you use a very beautiful scroll, the kind of masterpiece in the art of illumination you really want to display in your house. This perk could allow you to end the quest without renouncing to an ornated living room.


And not having it could allow the developers to implement such a quest as one of those moral choices: Preserve history, or preserve whatever the scroll's use will allow you to protect. Which is more important, saving the small village or returning the monastery their artwork scroll?

(Or taking the all-important route of shafting both so you can have a pretty to display in your parlor.)
User avatar
Campbell
 
Posts: 3262
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:54 am

Next

Return to V - Skyrim