If the tower was originally made of stone, on the other hand, then you can make it adamantine and build the entire world from it. :yes:

Every piece of software is developed under certain constraints, like time, money etc. In that context, sadly, you might sometimes have to prioritise certain aspects of your product. For me the core of the Elder Scrolls series -and I've played all of them except Arena- is their unparalleled ability to be immersive. To that end, the incredibly sophisticated and refined art and lore of the series plays the most significant part. Some of the arguments in the line of "it's a computer game so it has to be a GAME first and foremost, so prioritise the gameplay" do not do the Elder Scrolls series (or the gaming industry as a whole) justice in terms of what can be achieved. That's a bit like saying that cinema is only about entertainment.

So, to cut a long story short, I would welcome any gameplay improvements of course, but only if the depth of the lore, art, and writing are prioritised in the context I described above.

The emperor protects us form chaos. He is not in a mere comma, his vast powers keep chaos at bay.

The not concrete details can be bent a bit if it makes for better gameplay, aslong as the lore is consistant within the game itself

Lore is mostly books in the game. Even if they had not said it, it is clear that lore is as malleable as books in the real world. Here in America we had a civil war in the late 1800's or was it the war of northern aggression. I'm fairly sure what we know of science has changed, like what we have thought the smallest particle is, and the theory of relativity is fairly recent. Did that betray our lore? Lore should be built out of legos, when a piece no longer fits your overall design take it out and replace it. It is kind of what we do in the real world.

Grammar is very important to me (so "so" shouldn't be capitalized). I don't want it to take away from gameplay either.
I love how you, among many others, think that there are only five Elder Scrolls. It's as if you people didn't realize there's a whole library filled with them in White Gold Tower.

I think gameplay should bend to the lore in nearly every case. I can't think of one where gameplay should win out, but I'm sure there is probably some instance out there.

In an ideal world, lore would be king. We don't live in an ideal world, and I can accept and understand changes/omissions of lore for the sake of gameplay.

Lore is what avoids TES to be converted into a normal hack & slash game, and is just essential to RPG's. No lore = no fantasy world = no possible roleplay.

So this thread is rather pointless...

What's funny is that Cyrodiil was originally a forest. The Pocket Guide changed the lore and Oblivion only changed Cyrodiil back into its original incarnation.

But Cyrodiil didn't change, it was the citizen of tamriel who wrote the pocket guide who got it wrong... the lore is flexible

I have always felt that Lore and Gameplay both are needed to make a good RPG. Without the lore there is no mystery, no meaning, no world or history to the world that your trying to feel is real. On the other hand without good gameplay the game would fail on a buyers standpoint because reviews would shoot it down for playing horribly and people will be annoyed with it and return it. Good gameplay is needed for general enjoyment of the game, the lore is needed for those of us who love the game more then the average joe and want to look into the meaning behind the world. If Skyrim had the best story ever but gameplay that was bad to the point to where people notice, then it would ruin the lore since many would stop playing a GAME that plays badly. If the gameplay were the best ever and the story svcked, well it would have no depth and people would stop playing much earlier because they would have discovered everything much faster and got bored of it.

Both go hand in hand, neither one should be put to the side as both are needed to make the other work to their fullest.

I voted that things that are not set in stone can be modified to make things better. Sometimes things we once thought as fact change though, or there is a small instance were there is an acception. It happens in many great sets of lore.

Good lore is the father of good gameplay.

Don't get me wrong im a lore guy but the gameplay is what its about I mean it is a game right? Besides would a werewolf in cyrodill really break lore that much? So one wandered over the boarder. Now if they started adding guns or super sayians is a little to much against lore.

To which extent we should compromise lore in order to impute certain gameplay elements?

Well, that depends, what lore and what gameplay elements specifically? I wouldn't want to generalize, but it should be obvious to all that many things have been changed in Tamriel for every new installment. For the better, usually. It doesn't mean they are suddenly making new priorities leaning towards less overall lore.

What he said.


Uh... Nope.

Err, I thought the Space Marines saw the Emperor as some kind of father figure(Although a bit more than that), The rest of the Imperium are very fanatical though.

Anyway, on topic.
Lore can be modified a little in my opinion if it makes the gameplay better.

Lore is Data's brother. People hate hime because he lured the crystaline entity to the col... wait... I don't know.

Programmed in multiple techniques.

This is a fantasy game, what we do in the real world doesn't need to be mimicked in order to help progression.

"i wouldn't mind if they edited the not so concrete details to make awesomeness"

First, that seems to be what they're doing. We knew Thu'um was related to Kynareth, related to Lorkhan, related to Akatosh. Now we're getting details. One of the reasons people don't mind the changes to lore between Daggerfall and Morrowind is that they were what they call "improvement by addition," the adding of depth and changing of minor details in order to make something cooler. Doing that again wouldn't hurt.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/2ptp6xi.jpg

http://oi53.tinypic.com/dfgleh.jpg

Agreed there is no problem with minor changes that would make gameplay more enjoyable also lore is not set in stone. Some of it could be lies passed down for ages and recent events could make things come to light, games are meant to be fun and some story elements should not restrict gameplay options when stories can be changed,events happen that alter the past or at least how its perceived. So again lets not sacrifice fun when things could be changed and I mean so far things have been changed for the better well most things anyway.

I find it interesting how some people actually voted for "Screw Lore" :tongue:

What does lore have to do with gameplay?

If you can't get the two to coincide, you're just being lazy. You will only design things that breach lore if you don't design inspired by lore. And if you're not knowledgeable and enthusiastic about it, who the [censored] hired you in the first place?