Lore question: Elf lifespans

Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:40 pm

The tevanni and many nobles (elves and men) extend their lives into the thousands of years with necromancy. NECROMANCY IN TES ISN'T EVIL.
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:26 pm

who's that prophet guy in the shivering isles MQ who has been locked in a dungeon for 1000 years..

Sheogorath was keeping him alive, Forced immortality

Edit: oops already answered
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Roddy
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:21 am

The tevanni and many nobles (elves and men) extend their lives into the thousands of years with necromancy. NECROMANCY IN TES ISN'T EVIL.

Where do you get men extending their lives into thousands of years provide a example
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Nauty
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:57 am

Depends on the social class. If it's a peasant, 120-130 is a good number. However, those who are well taken care of can generally tend to live up to 1000. And Telvanni mage-lords have been known to extend their lifespans up to 4,000 years old.

Eh, more like if it's a Telvanni mage-lord, expect 1000. Dyviath Fyr is the only one who is 4000 years old, slightly older than the Tribunal. Barenziah is ~400 years old.

So I'd revise your list to be
Peasant: ~120
Rich: ~400
Telvanni Magelord: ~1000
Dyviath Fyr: ~4200

Humans, on the other hand, only seem to last ~100 years at best. Hell, Tiber Septim lasted for only 106 years, and the Remans didn't even live that long, and they were practically demi-gods.

Orsimer, however, do not really live too long. I believe it's ~60 at best.
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GRAEME
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:20 am

Where do you get men extending their lives into thousands of years provide a example



There are no examples I know of. Mostly Elves live over 1000, almost always wizards or necromancers. Sometimes Liches.

However, there's some partial evidence in Oblivion that it's generally accepted a Colovian sorcerer could live to be well over 100 and still be spry and youthful. The Count of Skingrad is secretly a vampire, but that's not common knowledge. The citizens of Cyrodill just assume he's a powerful sorcerer and think nothing of it. It seems common knowledge that a human mage could easily live to be that age and still be fit enough to rule a County. So we can assume sorcery greatly expands human lifespan and vitality.
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Jaylene Brower
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:13 pm

There are no examples I know of. Mostly Elves live over 1000, almost always wizards or necromancers. Sometimes Liches.

However, there's some partial evidence in Oblivion that it's generally accepted a Colovian sorcerer could live to be well over 100 and still be spry and youthful. The Count of Skingrad is secretly a vampire, but that's not common knowledge. The citizens of Cyrodill just assume he's a powerful sorcerer and think nothing of it. It seems common knowledge that a human mage could easily live to be that age and still be fit enough to rule a County. So we can assume sorcery greatly expands human lifespan and vitality.

Good point about Hassildor dont know why i didn't think of that.
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Britta Gronkowski
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:11 am

NECROMANCY IN TES ISN'T EVIL.

Well, that depends upon who you're talking to, and how you define "necromancy".
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jesse villaneda
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 pm

and how you define "necromancy".

I don't think anyone ever has.

The whole topic in ES is mostly just pure fail. Why else would there be an Oblivion questline based on it?
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Vera Maslar
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:33 pm

I don't think anyone ever has.

The whole topic in ES is mostly just pure fail. Why else would there be an Oblivion questline based on it?

Well, some of the practices of the Tribunal Temple are definitely necromantic, but they consider necromancy in general to be abhorrent. They think there's a distinction between their respectful use of the ancestors, and other people's profaning of the dead. See "Blasphemous Revenants".

On the other hand, "Arkay the Enemy" suggests that Cyrodiil was quite tolerant of necromancy (until Oblivion, of course), being possessed of the scholarly idea that they should disregard "primitive burial customs" and such.

As with all such things, the definition of and morality pertaining to necromancy varies by culture.
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Lucky Girl
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:58 pm

Here's my best crack at a layman summary.

Necromancy is the manipulation of dead bodies and mortal souls. It is a college of magical study which operates under varying levels of legal control in different parts of Tamriel. In some provinces it is forbidden and zealously persecuted. In others it's allowed by law under special circumstances but freelancers are frowned upon. It's not universally accepted in any culture with the exception of the Sloads.

The goal of the Necromancer differs greatly from person to person. Some study the soul and the state of undeath for medical research or to otherwise expand magical understanding for beneficial purposes. Others for their own curiosity. Some, like the Dunmer, practice a form of religious Necromancy to protect their clan tombs. This type of necromancy involves structures called ghost fences powered by souls, and the tombs are often filled with corporeal and ghostlike revenants. During the last battle of Ald'Ruhn, various sorcerers and priests managed to resurrect the ancient Emperor Crab using an advanced version of this necromancy. Another form of necromancy is suspected to be practiced by the Telvanni wizard lords, as some of them are very old. Little to nothing is known about their techniques.

And yes, there are those who utilize necromancy as a means to acquire power. Mannimarco and his cult are a prime example, as are the various Liches who have carved out their own little macabre kingdoms within abandoned forts and dank old caves. These are evil people who happen to utilize necromancy in malignant ways. They're not evil because they're necromancers. They're evil, and they are necromancers. Most evil people are not necromancers, by the way. The average highwayman and marauder of the world would be lucky to know the most basic of healing spell let alone have the ability to raise the dead or manipulate souls, and you're far more likely to be attacked by a bandit with a rusty dagger than a necromancer during your travels through Tamriel.

So keep that in mind to put necromancy in a proper perspective.
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Krystal Wilson
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:28 am

Here's my best crack at a layman summary.

Necromancy is the manipulation of dead bodies and mortal souls. It is a college of magical study which operates under varying levels of legal control in different parts of Tamriel. In some provinces it is forbidden and zealously persecuted. In others it's allowed by law under special circumstances but freelancers are frowned upon. It's not universally accepted in any culture with the exception of the Sloads.

The goal of the Necromancer differs greatly from person to person. Some study the soul and the state of undeath for medical research or to otherwise expand magical understanding for beneficial purposes. Others for their own curiosity. Some, like the Dunmer, practice a form of religious Necromancy to protect their clan tombs. This type of necromancy involves structures called ghost fences powered by souls, and the tombs are often filled with corporeal and ghostlike revenants. During the last battle of Ald'Ruhn, various sorcerers and priests managed to resurrect the ancient Emperor Crab using an advanced version of this necromancy. Another form of necromancy is suspected to be practiced by the Telvanni wizard lords, as some of them are very old. Little to nothing is known about their techniques.

And yes, there are those who utilize necromancy as a means to acquire power. Mannimarco and his cult are a prime example, as are the various Liches who have carved out their own little macabre kingdoms within abandoned forts and dank old caves. These are evil people who happen to utilize necromancy in malignant ways. They're not evil because they're necromancers. They're evil, and they are necromancers. Most evil people are not necromancers, by the way. The average highwayman and marauder of the world would be lucky to know the most basic of healing spell let alone have the ability to raise the dead or manipulate souls, and you're far more likely to be attacked by a bandit with a rusty dagger than a necromancer during your travels through Tamriel.

So keep that in mind to put necromancy in a proper perspective.


*slow clap*

Excellent summation.
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Gaelle Courant
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:59 pm

Alright, well he's a mercenary, so that's a rough life and bound to take a few years off. Not really a peasant though, as he's good at his job and has the money to live well. Okay, this is my character, so I'm gonna take some liberties and say he's a few hundred years old, at least old enough to have lived during the events of Morrowind, Oblivion and now Skyrim. Due to lore reasons though he's not the Nerevarine and not the saviour of Cyrodiil, just some merc who happened to work in those regions while that was going on.

Thanks again, this perfectly illustrates why I love this place.

Considering Dunmer develop at roughly the same rate as humans (in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-axe-man the interviewee is considered a "young man" before 18, in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-chances-folly there's a 16 year old master thief), if your character was in his late teens/early twenties during Morrowind, it'd be quite reasonable for him to still be working during Skyrim, albeit he'd probably be near retirement age.
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Beast Attire
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:09 pm

redguard 1-150
breton 1-250
altmer 1-1000
dunmer 1-1000
bosmer 1-1000
imperia 1-85
argonian 1-125
orc 1-75
nord 1-120
khajiit 1-90

but anyone very very skilled in magic can extend their lives



that brings up another question..........do khajit get 9 lives? i doubt nords make it to over 50 considering their lifestyles.
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Sarah Bishop
 
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Post » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:56 am

Considering Dunmer develop at roughly the same rate as humans (in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-axe-man the interviewee is considered a "young man" before 18, in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-chances-folly there's a 16 year old master thief), if your character was in his late teens/early twenties during Morrowind, it'd be quite reasonable for him to still be working during Skyrim, albeit he'd probably be near retirement age.

Just because Dunmer mature at the same rate doesn't mean they age at the same rate. A different pre-MW interview establishes that they have several decades on the average human.
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Hannah Whitlock
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:29 pm

Just because Dunmer mature at the same rate doesn't mean they age at the same rate. A different pre-MW interview establishes that they have several decades on the average human.

...that's right, they don't age at the same rate as humans. That's the only reason he could still be a mercenary after 200 years, instead of, say, a bunch of bones in the ground. Considering a farmer on Vvardenfell retires at around 100, 200 years of similarly rough mercenary life (albeit away from ash-clouds) would probably leave them somewhere between http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eagames/bioware/masseffect2/resources/assets/universe/squad/screenshots/zaeed-01-p.jpg and http://www.paulkidby.net/Cohen.jpg.
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:59 pm

It would probably leave them more like dead. 200 would be an incredible age for any lower class Dunmer to live, let alone one in a line of work where you can literally die at any given moment.
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Add Meeh
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:09 pm

It would probably leave them more like dead. 200 would be an incredible age for any lower class Dunmer to live, let alone one in a line of work where you can literally die at any given moment.

"I say, Aunt Tlathu, this saltrice calzone is excellent!"
"Thank you, dearie. And the Marshmerrow makes it Fortify Health, too."
"Ooh! I got a sliver from the table!"
*two hours later*
"Urk!"
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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:35 pm

There's not much interesting that can come out of this conversation, but one thing that I think is always overlooked is that in the original concept for Telvanni mages, the "necromancy" they performed to keep themselves alive eventually deformed them to look like http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/mw_TAoM_p30.jpg.
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Miss Hayley
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:36 pm

There's another, colored example of the deformation, but I don't remember which page it's on. I assumed that was a Telvanni in their ceremonial beetle carapace. YH depicts the ritual, in the PGE.
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Glu Glu
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:29 pm

There's one http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/mw_TAoM_p31.jpg and http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/mw_TAoM_p28.jpg (92 of course).
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Mari martnez Martinez
 
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Post » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:38 am

Interesting concept art, but Divayth Fyr is well over 4000 years old and is represented in the game and in out of game lore as a normal looking Dunmer man of a spry and fit physicality. Either he's mastered necromancy to a higher degree than these deformed sorcerers or uses some other means to sustain himself.
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:16 pm

Or he's represented that way in game because the concepts weren't feasible to implement and he's not represented out of game as looking like anything at all?
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Justin
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:00 pm

In several of Ken's RP posts as Divayth Fyr he's mentioned riding a horse and doing other normal human body type activities.

And if they could represent Yagrum as a twisted monstrosity and use character models like Ash Vampires and Ascended Sleepers with dialogue I'm sure they could have represented Telvanni Mage Lords as bloated monsters as well if they so chose. Maybe this is simply an abandoned concept, or maybe the deformed wizards are all on the mainland.

It IS interesting to note that this closely resembles the concept art for Sotha Sil..the whole legless levitating monstrosity aspect of it.
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Mr. Ray
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:50 am

Or maybe they only had so much time to model unique creatures and they decided that a handful of characters highly significant to the mainquest were enough. We're talking - Vivec, Yagrum, and Dagoth Ur in the original game.
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jasminε
 
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Post » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:51 pm

Or maybe they only had so much time to model unique creatures and they decided that a handful of characters highly significant to the mainquest were enough. We're talking - Vivec, Yagrum, and Dagoth Ur in the original game.



That would explain that part, but not how Divayth is described with a normal Dunmer physique in Ken's RP posts. It's worth noting how intimately involved Ken was in the development of Divayth's dialogue and his role in Morrowind. He should know the character as well as the next guy. Nothing in his obscure texts would seem to indicate deformities. There are certain people on these forums who cast doubt on the validity of the out of game lore, but I'd place it above concept art at least. What doesn't contradict what makes it into the games directly shouldn't be easily discarded.
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Chad Holloway
 
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