well, sithis is the primordial state of creation, no? i don't want to change that, but nihilo could be the sithis that the db worshipped. the db worshipped a powerful sentient entity that had control over the void. sounds quite a bit like nihilo, no?^^ so they worship nihilo, but call him sithis.

Well...more like chaos and the number 0, with Anu, the opposite of Sithis, being stasis and infinity. I know there is a better explanation somewhere about Sithis

That really depends on what you mean by 'primordial state of creation'. Sithis is the original state of flux/interplay/dividing that got everything moving - though in the sense that Mundus seeks to somewhat imitate that state (being the "House of Sithis"), then I suppose some aspects of calling it a "primordial state" could be accurate...

i meant with the anu and whatnot. i know he is only half of the places surrounding grey nirn, but many, if not all, say that he really was the reason for creation of daedra and aedra. right?

I didn't say it was only half, it's more than that, it comes in and divides up and causes motion in the other half, mixing in and causing possibility. But yes, Sithis is the reason for the creation of the Aedra/Daedra, the result of that dividing...

What Came First is either a state of flux that so constant and infinite that nothing can last or self-reflect long enough to exist... or it is a dead block of all potential that is too inert to make anything of itself. The first is Sithis, the second is Anu, the difference between them is simple interpretation. You couldn't tell the difference between stasis-as-nothing and chaos-as-nothing if you stumbled on them in a dark alleyway. But if you're an elf who likes his Aedric ancestors, you will desribe the young universe as Anu, as it fits with your spiritual worldview.

"Stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing."

That basically sums all what paws just said, albeit with a little more brevity.

yes, it is quite the complicated topic, i hear. but i have some questions concerning the creation of morrowind and its government and early cartography.
1. When did organized government appear in Tamriel?
2. When did it appear in Morrowind?
3. How and in what order of cities?
4. What is the capital of Morrowind?
5. Did the Morag Tong originate in Vivec?
6. Where would the ruling person or party live during the creation of the dunmer nation?
7. What influence did the Morag Tong have on the process?
8. Did it happen before or after Red Mountain?
9. During the schism between the brotherhood and the tong, the night mother orchestrated it, right?
10. The night mother was originally a member of the tong, right?
11. After what event did the schism take place, and when?
I know there are a lot, but i need this kind of info for my mod lore, and i am afraid to misinterpret something by researching myself. Many books and pages are a little strange and hard to understand. Thank you all, the creation of Traitor within the compendium will begin once i find this stuff out^^.

1. Can't really say, not enough info, though I might suggest it was created with organized government in a sense. You should check out the http://www.imperial-library.info/history/
2. Again, not enough info
3. Ditto
4. Mournhold
5. No, we don't know a specific place. For info check out http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/fire_darkness.shtml
6. The Dunmer nation, by that point you could probably say Mournhold. However I assume you're wanting to know about the Chimer, in which case I'd say a tent somewhere since they were nomads.
7. In what sense?
8. Well, the Dunmer didn't exist until after Red Mountain. Morrowind was a loose 'nation' before Red Mountain, afterward/during it got its real unified government and even then it's complicated.
9. That's the idea we get from http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/brothers_darkness.shtml
10. Ditto
11. Brothers of Darkness will answer that for as close as it's possible to answer and it's pretty straightforward

Thats what I was suggesting.

Aldmeri wanderers first settled Morrowind in coastal areas, many of which became Telvanni sites after their abandonment. Presumably the original Aldmeri migrated inland and developed into the Dwemer. The Chimer experienced a golden age period of Velothi high culture when they finally began to flourish in Morrowind. This broke down into chaos and loose clans and eventually became the House system of the First Council era.

thank you, i figured most of it, but just making sure. thanks ravager and paw prints. so, would thi general concept make sense?

member of the kings went rogue and decided to make his own guild after the kings stopped accepting money contracts. he got a few freinds and tried to run to morrowind, but he got caught. nihilo, deciding that his group could be of use to him in the future, decided to grant his wish and threw him into red mountain. he survived, but his skin was so badly burned that he could no longer be recognized. he traveled the land killing and surviving until he met a dunmer womam and he told her his idea for an assassins guild. they went to mournhold to ask the current leaders if they could form an assassins guild for them. they started to worship nihilos enemy, mephala, and eventually evolved into the morag tong who worshipped vivec, or something. then, the night mother, one of the original 15 kings, inflitrated the tong and rose in the ranks until she decided to gather followers, kill many morag tong leaders, and leave for tamriel to create the db. she then pretty much secluded herself in her crypt, only telling the listener jobs that people asked for and nihilo heard and told her. the db eventually became a sadistic cult that turned the concept of nihilo and thought he was sithis. the night mother takes much of the gold from the db and uses it to support the dark kings.

ow, i just read the lore books on these topics, and it is very confusing. if anyone has information that i can use to clarify the topic and to add more detail and realism to the mod.

What would he eat while there? The poisonous flora? Daedra hearts? What would he drink? Lava? Blood?



Arkay is a psychopomp.


They were killed by the Four Heroes of Thyrion anyway.


If you pay attention, an aedra's death is the same as a daedra's banishment. Both are temporary misfortunes, but in both case they come back changed, no longer exactly what they were before.


If you block a river with a dam, what happens? Right, you get a lake. And after that. What happens once the lake is filled?


The last attempt at imposing a religion radically different to the accepted existing standard, the Alessian Order, failed.

well, you are busting heads all over the place, man.

What would he eat while there? The poisonous flora? Daedra hearts? What would he drink? Lava? Blood?
yeah, the dremora thing is off. but, i was playing modular oblivion enhanced, and they have some kind of banished dremora race. if that is possible then...

Arkay is a psychopomp.
hmm, i never understood the nine divines, but is arkay the god of the after life? so, does he go get the souls, or does he oversee the gate into dreamsleave? many religions have both entities.

They were killed by the Four Heroes of Thyrion anyway.
the four heroes of thyrion seem to be from some game called heretic. that was an extensively well hidden inside joke gez. it took me 10 minutes to get that answer. ^^

The last attempt at imposing a religion radically different to the accepted existing standard, the Alessian Order, failed.
well, i was simply trying to prove a point with that. i forgot what that point was, actually^^.

thank you gez^^. please don't take anything i say the wrong way XP. please check out my book on my wipz, since you seem to be a great lore buff^^. thanks.

M.O.B is not exactly lore accurate, and is at best just a good way to get a lot of mods covering a lot of different things.
ahh, but what if a story was invented to make it lore friendly. could daedra be banished into the mortal world? seeing as how they apparantly were punsihed by dagon, couldn't he take away their defeated->banished to oblivion thing so they can actually die like mortals?

note: please no one question the reason for my book, it is the best way for me to think of new ideas and where my story is lacking before i start adding npcs that say things. as darkrdr once said, you need a set before you put actors, but i say you need an idea before you make the set, or else the set will be flawed. thanks all.

M.O.B is not exactly lore accurate, and is at best just a good way to get a lot of mods covering a lot of different things.

It spills over the dam...and becomes a river again.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

i have some questions concerning the nature of daedric princes again:

1. Can there only be 16 or 17 daedric princes?
2. Can Daedric princes be banished to oblivion?
3. Can daedric princes create new planes within oblivion?
4. If their planes are in oblivion (definative guid to daedra), then is the fiery oblivion a seperate realm of oblvion?
5. Can regular Daedra become daedric princes?
6. Why were some daedra more powerful, becoming princes?
7. How where daedra created, and what were they doing while the aedra were creating nirn?
8. Please tell me any wrong things i have in http://www.mediafire.com/?g1m0vmmumzy concerning daedra and daedric princes.
if any of you all have been following my wipz, i am no longer making the mod so daedric intensive. Nihilo is now a mortal who beat death, but he demanded things from other gods too. specially daedra, so you must still fight lots of daedra. thanks all, specially darkrdr, who pointed me in this hopefully more popular and fun direction^^.
thank you all. i think my lore is almost straight.

1. There are only 16 Daedric princes. Recall that Malac was made during the Convention, the only known addition to the Princes excluding the Shezzarite.
2. Yes. Dagon himself is proof of this.
3. Kinda doubt it. I think it's possible though. I'm betting they can make realms within their own.
4. No. That's Dagon's realm. I've forgotten the name of it for some damn reason.
5. Nah. they're kinda already part of their Lords themselves. I will say that this is my opinion though.
6. Paraphrased, that's just the way it goes. They were the strongest of the primordial ideas.
7. See 6. They were busy not giving themselves to creation. They were vain; didn't want to "cut off pieces of themselves. "To be made of dirt is to be treated as such by your jailers."
8. Apologies; I haven't looked at it yet.

1) 16. But, Malacath and Sheogorath are not considered to be daedric princes by the other 14 princes. I believe it is because of their origin.
2) Dagon knows this part a lot, and Azura recently experienced it, if the Trial of Vivec counts.
3) The planes they reside in is them. So, my answer would be no, since you can't make yourself somewhere else.
4) I don't think that is Dagon's realm, 946000. From what I read is that it is a pocket realm used to stage attacks. Not to mention Beothia and that other prince who looks like a dragon (can't spell his damn name) sent you there.
5) Nope
6) What 946000 said
7) They were originally Et'ata or whatever you call it. Basically the original spirits or something. They refused to take part in creation, which is why they are daedra.
8) Didn't read

Can they be added now though?

yeah, if creation happened once, can it happen again? and if a prince was banished, would his realm go with him then?

If a Prince is banished from its own realm?

"No" was (supposed to be) the gist of that assertion.

oh okay. thanks. and yes, that was my question aldanaril^^ thanks all

1. There are infinite Daedric Princes.
2. Yes and no.
3. ^
4. The firey Oblivion in-game is a fraction-if at all, of Mehrunes Dagon's "Realm"
5. They are already.
6. They derive their power from the ashes of the Aedra.
7. They've always been, until they weren't.